Latin American Network Information Center - LANIC

FL011100Y Havana Domestic Television Service in Spanish 1900 GMT 30 Oct 77

[Cuban President Fidel Castro's press conference in Kingston, Jamaica on 21
October; questions and answers in English and Spanish with consecutive
Spanish-English translation--recorded]

[Text]  [Edith (name indistinct), ASSOCIATED PRESS]  Mr President.  My
question is what do you feel should be the next step for improving
relations between the United States and Cuba?

[Castro]  Well, I do not know what the step will be, I only know what the
next step should be.  It is an end to the economic blockade.

[Monica Hauthorne, JBC News]  Mr President.  Just a follow-up on that
question.  My question is how do you view the efforts of the new Carter
administration to improve relations with Cuba and how do you view the
apparent new U.S. attitude toward Latin America?

[Castro]  I believe that in the last 18 years the Carter administration has
been the only one of the U.S. administrations that has not been
characterized by a policy of hostility toward Cuba.  All previous
governments, those of Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon and Ford, were
characterized by a policy of hostility toward Cuba and this has not been
Carter's predominant feature regarding Cuba.  There have been some gestures
on his part, for example, stopping spy flights over Cuban national
territory.  Secondly, he lifted the ban on U.S. citizens visiting Cuba.
With this, in my opinion, he reestablished a right of U.S. citizens.  There
have been contacts and an agreement was reached on fishing questions and
they also proposed to Cuba the establishment of an interest office.  These
are undoubtedly positive steps toward improving relations between the
United States and Cuba.  On the other hand, for many years the CIA
supported a policy of subversion, sabotage, terrorism and of assassination
of leaders of the revolution.  I believe that is not Carter's policy.  For
instance, I am of the opinion that Carter, because his personal convictions
which have a deeply religious root, would be incapable of ordering the
assassination of the leaders of other countries.  That is our evaluation
and, therefore, we have a better concept of the Carter administration than
was the case of the other administrations with regard to Cuba.

[Silvio Lee, DAILY GLEANER]  (?President) Castro, there has been a
lessening of tensions between the United States and Cuba within recent
times and according to recent statements by the, I think the Cuban Trade
Minister Mr Fort, he said that Cuba is seeking not only removal of the
trade embargo but also wishes to be considered as a most-favored nation and
also for credits.  Prior to the Castro revolution, before the Castro
revolution, Cuba had two principal products to offer to the USA--sugar and
tourist attractions.  Now Sir, would you care to tell us, if trade with the
United States resumed, what are the products that you propose to sell to
the USA?

[Castro]  How many questions are there, one or five?  [laughter] I believe
that the statement by the Cuban foreign trade minister is correct.
Logically, if the blockage is lifted, trade between Cuba and the United
States should develop.  When he speaks of the most-favored nation provision
it is not a question of privilege, but more or less a recognition of the
right which Cuba deserves as an underdeveloped country and as a member, as
part of international agreements.  It is a case of demanding that Cuba not
be discriminated against in any sense.  Also, trade will have to develop
under normal bases as is done between all countries of the world.  Before
the revolution, we exported to the United States not only sugar.  True,
there was tourism, a tourism based on gambling casinos and prostitution on
many occasions.  We do not want that type of tourism and we will not accept

We will accept tourism under different bases and not on the basis of drugs,
gambling and vices.  But we also exported nickel to the United States.  We
exported tobacco to the United States.  We have very good-quality tobacco.
U.S. citizens have been deprived of the quality of our tobacco for many
years.  [laughter]  Some vegetables also were exported to the United
States.  Of course, we did not export industrial goods because we were an
underdeveloped country.  So, we have sugar, nickel, tobacco, rum and other
such products.  Those would be the main type of products on which economic
relations with the United States would be based.  We are a very close
neighbor of the United States, only a few miles.  So, as a sugar supplier
we had a market that was formed for a period of over 100 years.  We had an
historical right to that market.  As a consequence of the revolution, the
United States in a unilateral manner deprived us of the U.S. sugar market.
All this brought about many disturbances in the sugar market and affected
the interests of many countries.  Many Latin American countries were bribed
with our sugar quota.  Cuba's quota was cut off and they divided it among
many Latin American countries which were thus bribed to support the
blockade and acts of aggression against Cuba.  Finally, those are the facts
[words indistinct] so now after many years they also lost their right to
their historical market, the U.S. market.  We are pleased.  We are not
concerned and we do not care whether or not quotas exist.  Whenever they
want sugar, we can supply it.  We can practically produce all the sugar we

[Unidentified Jamaican journalist]  Can you tell us what are your
impressions of our efforts to mobilize our society on a more self-reliant
basis since 1972?

[Castro]  I leave with a good impression about Jamaica.  I have visited
many countries which have recently come out of colonialism, [passage
indistinct] and I cannot but perceive the great efforts that the Jamaican
Government is making to push forward the country's progress even under very
difficult conditions because, as you know, there is an international
economic crisis in the capitalist world which has produced a recession in
the market and decreased the sales of Jamaica's primary goods, especially
bauxite and alumina.  As you know, in recent years there has been not only
a recession in the market but also an increase of the unequal exchange or
rather a worsening of the unequal trade situation.  The price of bauxite
has increased about 50 percent.  On the other hand, the prices of
industrial equipment and machinery in general, including transportation and
spare parts, have doubled and on certain occasions have tripled.  On the
other hand, oil [words indistinct] now Jamaica must use much more money for
the machinery, and it must spend a lot more money for the oil.  On the
other hand, bauxite has only increased 50 percent.  That is really an
unfair situation--the worsening of an old problem, the problem of trade
which has become very hard and very serious for underdeveloped countries
that are not oil producers.  We understand perfectly well what this
implies.  That is why the spirit of work and firmness with which the
Jamaican Government and people are working to overcome these difficulties
is admirable.  In a short period of time I have also been able to see that
many services have improved.  We could say that the health conditions of
Jamaica are among the best in Latin America.  There are many countries in
Latin America with more than 100 years of alleged independence and do not
have the public health standards which Jamaica has.  Moreover, education
has progressed a lot and there are many countries in Latin America that do
not have Jamaica's public education level.  I was also able to see that
both the situation of health and education in Jamaica is incomparably
better than the situation of the overwhelming majority of the countries of
Africa because these countries were left with a tremendous degree of
backwardness and Jamaicans have taken advantage of the past 15 years to
advance greatly.  I have also been able to see Jamaica's efforts in
building houses.  It is an outstanding effort.  And I can tell you that in
Jamaica [words indistinct] even better than in our country.

Therefore, I leave with a great impression of the advances achieved by the
country, of the level of organization and efficiency of the Jamaican
people.  I really leave with a great concept of the Jamaican people.

[Roots, New York TIMES]  Mr President, Sir.  May I ask this question.  My
name is (Roots).  (Roots) of the New York TIMES.  In the view of the
president, how can the government of Jamaica and Prime Minister Manley best
help toward this very necessary and desirable rapprochement between Cuba
and the United States?

[Castro]  I believe that it has helped.  Jamaica has broad relations with
many countries, among them the United States, and I know the principled
positions of Prime Minister Manley.  I know that he wants an improvement of
relations between Cuba and the United States.  I also know that he totally
opposes the economic blockade imposed by the United States on Cuba and he
has expressed this in various ways.  Jamaica has a very broad understanding
of Cuba's international policies, especially of our support to the struggle
for the independence and liberation of the peoples of Africa.  He has
expressed it in various forms.  I believe that this understanding on the
part of Jamaica's Government of questions that are of such importance which
have to do with Cuba influence one way or another the criteria of the U.S.
Government.  On the other hand, relations between Cuba and Jamaica are very
good.  We are part of the underdeveloped countries and we are part of the
nonalined movement, and we know of Manley's statements.  I remember, for
instance, that in Maputo he explained, he declared in his speech, that he
did not understand why Cuba was blockaded while on the other hand trade was
carried on with South Africa, weapons were sent to South Africa, credits
were provided to South Africa--a fascist country, a racist country
condemned by the United Nations and which has become the principal enemy of
the peoples of black Africa, and it seems to me that this is an argument of
extraordinary moral strength.  In our opinion these statements, these firm
statements on the just position of Jamaica, help in the international arena
to better understand how unjust and morally unsustainable are the acts of
aggression against Cuba and the economic blockade against our country.

[(Leif Thompson) Jamaican Agency for Public Information, API]  Mr
President.  it is said often by certain sectors of the Western press that
in the face of the American economic blockade against Cuba your country's
economy is only subsisting as a result of the $2-million a day subsidy from
the Soviet Union.  Is there any substance to this claim?

[Castro]  That is a history that is older than the revolution itself.
[laughter]  We have in fact received a broad solidarity from the socialist
camp and especially from the Soviet Union.  When the United States
eliminated the sugar market we were left without a market for Cuban sugar
and the Soviet Union opened a market for our sugar.  When the United States
deprived us of oil supplies through the multinational enterprises, the
Soviet Union supplied us with oil.  Not only that, but it also supplied us
with machinery, raw materials, equipment, and foodstuffs such as wheat and
other things which in the past we used to purchase in the United States and
which we could no longer purchase after the blockade.  What happened is
that the United States made so many efforts to ruin the Cuban economy and
crush the revolution that it did not resign itself to the fact that in
spite everything the Cuban revolution resisted subversion, military acts of
aggression such as the attack in Giron, pirate attacks and an infinite
number of other actions.  It not only resisted these acts of aggression,
but it also impressively progressed in the social field.  The revolution
eradicated illiteracy.  The revolution took teachers to all children in the
country.  The revolution built hospitals in all areas and sent doctors and
established medical services throughout the country, achieving great
successes in public health.  It developed culture.  It developed sports to
the extent that Cuba holds a high position in sports among the countries of
Latin America.

Cuba faced many problems.  It maintained its economy in spite of the
blockade and lack of spare parts for machinery which for the most part came
from the United States.  And in spite of the blockade, Cuba's prestige
grew.  They could not resign themselves to that reality and they had to
invent theories to justify all that.  It is true that the solidarity of the
Soviet Union meant great assistance to our country.  It was lucky for our
country that it was able to count on friends under such circumstances,
[passage indistinct] the type of trade we have with the Soviet Union, in
our opinion, constitutes a model of economic and commercial relations that
should exist between developed countries and underdeveloped countries.
There is no unequal trade between the Soviet Union and Cuba.  They give us
credits for investments--long-term credits and with low interest rates.
They pay us a fair price for our sugar, a price which today is over three
times...we receive the equivalent of 30 cents [per pound] for the sugar we
export to the Soviet Union.  We receive oil, raw materials and foodstuffs
from the Soviet Union.  Besides that, there is an agreement that in case
the export products from the Soviet Union to Cuba increase in prices, the
price for Cuban sugar goes up.  That is why when I say 30 cents I refer to
1975 prices.  After that, the prices of some of the goods that the Soviet
Union exports to us rose and the price of our sugar also increased.  That
is why I believe that what actually exists is a true example of just
relations in the economic field and in the commercial field between the
Soviet Union and Cuba and that relations such as these should exist among
all developed countries and underdeveloped countries.  Why does not the
United States do the same with the countries of Latin America and countries
like Jamaica?  Why do they pay more money for Jamaica's bauxite?  Why do
not they increase the price for bauxite when, on the other hand, they
increase the prices of machinery and so forth that they export to Jamaica?
That would be the truly fair thing to do.  There is someone that subsidies
our economy and it is our people, our workers [applause] who not only work
8 hours a day, but many times they work 10, 12 hours a day to help our
economy and they contribute with tens of millions of voluntary hours of
work as a result of their revolutionary consciousness.

[(Beverly Hamilton), JAMAICA DAILY NEWS]  Could you comment on reports in
the Western press that Cuban troops are being used in Angola to help an
unpopular government and also would you say whether Cuban troops would be
sent to help liberation movements in Zimbabwe and (?South Africa)?

[Castro]  I like to answer that question.  You should see what elements of
the Western press says that and you will find out that they are at the
service of South African racists, at the service of the imperialists,
because what is historical and what absolutely no one can deny is that
Cuban soldiers went to Angola at the request of the Angolan Government when
the fascist and racist troops of South Africa, in a lightning war,
imitating Hitler's (armored) divisions, invaded Angola and were advancing
at the rate of 78 kilometers per day.  It was at that time that we gave our
support, and between the Angolans and ourselves we defeated the racist army
which thought it was invincible.

[applause]  That is the great reality.  We did not go to conquer Angola's
independence.  We went to help a people which already had gained its
independence because, in our opinion, [word indistinct] the independence
struggle is, above all, the task of the people [words indistinct] and that
independence is not taken to any country from abroad, but rather, that
independence is conquered by fighting heroically and courageously against
the oppressors.  That is what the Zimbabwe combatants are doing; that is
what the Namibian combatants are doing.  They do not need Cuban troops to
gain their independence.  This is apart from relations of solidarity and of
broad support that we offer to the Namibian liberation movement and to the
Zimbabwe liberation movement.  That is what I can answer.  In regards to
our troops and what they do and about our military cooperation--whether it
is offered here and there whenever it is needed and whenever it is
justified--are not things we discuss in public.

We discuss these things with the liberation movements, and only the CIA and
imperialism can be interested in information about the things we are
thinking about on those specific matters of solidarity with the liberation
movements.  [applause]

[(name indistinct) (Miami HERALD)]  Do you see the possibility that any
time soon those Cubans who have left Cuba since the revolution might be
allowed to return to visit relatives and see their homeland?

[Castro]  Really, I believe that until the economic blockade ceases, that
until relations are normalized, until the activities of
counterrevolutionary terrorist elements are truly suppressed by U.S.
authorities, there are no conditions for that exchange, for that
possibility, to take place, for the [Cuban] residents in Miami to visit
Cuba.  When conditions are normalized, when the blockade ceases and when
terrorism ceases we could examine, in a positive spirit [words indistinct]
not all of them are negative, not all of them are terrorists, not all the
emigres are counterrevolutionaries.  We do not see them like that.  We
know of many children of people who left the country who are now young
people and disagree with the fact that their parents left the country
during the revolution.  There are people among the emigres who have
changed their opinion.  There are people among the emigres who want to
visit Cuba, to visit their relatives, and we have no objection to these
feelings.  On the contrary, we consider them to be positive, and sometime,
whenever conditions permit, they will be taken into consideration.

[Unidentified journalist]  Do you consider the statements made by Carter
with regard to human rights in Cuba an impediment to the reestablishment of
normal relations?

[Castro]  I do not know.  I do know, for instance, that in Chile the people
are arrested, tortured, assassinated and they disappear.  None of these
things happens in Cuba.  However, Carter has magnificent relations, the
United States has excellent relations with Pinochet.  The same thing
happens in Nicaragua and relations are very good.  Just to give some
examples.  The same things happen in Brazil and there are excellent
relations between Brazil and the United States.  These things happen in
Zaire and excellent relations exist between the United States and Zaire.
These things happen in South Africa and you know how many people have been
imprisoned, how many have been murdered.  Thousands of people killed in
Soweto because of police shooting of the unarmed population and scores of
black leaders in South Africa are assassinated in the jails, strange
suicides.  Nevertheless, relations between the United States and South
Africa are very good, and so on.  We could mention many examples.  In Cuba
the army has never been used against the people.  In Cuba the police have
never been used against the people.  There are great demonstrations, great
mass rallies in Cuba.  The masses are constantly in the streets, but they
are not against the revolution.  They are in favor of the revolution and
they are friends of the revolution.  There are no curfews in Cuba.
[passage indistinct] and those are not obstacles.  So, why this question of
human rights concerning a country where none of these things happens, a
country that is fighting for its development, social progress, education, a
country that has the best level of education in Latin America, which does
not have a single illiterate, a country that has the best level of
employment in Latin America, that has no unemployed, that has the best
health levels in Latin America?  If Carter really believes in human rights,
then he should rather feel stimulated to establish relations with Cuba.

[(Nevil Reed), THE STAR]  Your Excellency.  What is your concept of a free
press in a socialist regime and how does this press function from the
viewpoint of the minority (?that is) opposed to socialism, especially where
there are two opposing parties?

[Castro]  Well, my concept of a free press [words indistinct] should be the
property of the people and not the property of the officials or particular
individuals [passage indistinct] belong to the people and we should have
the broadest liberty so that the people use these means in favor of their
interests and their cause and in hard criticism of everything that is badly
done.  I believe that the more criticism and self-criticism we have within
socialism is the best thing.  That is my opinion.  You speak of a minority,
I do not see a minority in Cuba.  Cuba's minority left for Miami and there
they [applause] have their newspapers, magazines, radio stations and
everything.  The majority stayed in Cuba and that is the majority that owns
the radio stations, the television and newspapers.  Now then, in Cuba you
will never see the press or television publicizing crime.  We do not have
any red press, [as heard] you will not see the mass media in Cuba making
propaganda for gambling, drugs or prostitution.  You do not see television
in Cuba doing commercial propaganda.  When a campaign is carried out, [it
is] a campaign in favor of education, in favor of health, vaccination of
children against tetanus and against polio, and educational programs.
That is what you see in our country.  There are also recreational programs.
If you sit down to see a soccer match or baseball game, you sit there all
the time--2 hours, 3 hours watching baseball, soccer, sports and comments
on them and you do not see interruptions to advertise Coca Cola,
Chesterfields, such and such an automobile and that is the way it is.  I
remember I had an experience, two experiences that I do not forget.  I
remember that when we were in the Sierra Maestra during the struggle
someone brought an electric power plant and a television set, and we set it
up.  We were anxious to see a television program, and I remember that I
hated it.  Buy Candado soap to win a home.  Buy Grave toothpaste to win a
1,000-peso prize.  Buy such and such a newspaper to win such and such a
prize.  All of that constant poison on the people was repulsive, alienating
and hallucinating.  Well then, all of that disappeared from our mass media.
We have distributed television sets throughtout the country and our
television network has extraordinarily improved the quality of the
programs.  We have about 700,000 television sets in the country--in the
cities, in the countryside.  The people receive the benefits of the
revolution, of television which is not a commercial television and whose
function is to fully serve the interests of the people.  Another
experience:  I remember when the North Americans made the first trip to the
moon.  Undoubtedly, it was a considerable technological achievement and
something of much interest.  Miami's television is not seen in Cuba.  But
we said, we put up an antenna and we saw the first trip to the moon in
color.  [laughter]  and I really loved it looking at the ship, the man,
that module that left the ship and the men reaching the moon.  And suddenly
all of that was interrupted for several minutes of commercial propaganda.
[laughter]  I wanted to see man walking on the moon and I was not allowed
because every 5 minutes they wanted to instill in my head that I should eat
this or that, smoke that, to wash my mouth with such and such a toothpaste
[laughter] and to [words indistinct].

[Unidentified journalist]  Mr President, [words indistinct]  All the
secrecy and tight security surrounding your visit to our country caused a
handful of Jamaicans to react negatively to your visit.  Would you say two
things:  One, whether the security arrangements for your visit have
hindered your visit in any way, and, the importance to you of the security
arrangements that were made?

[Castro]  First of all, the government of Jamaica is not to be blamed at
all for the discretion that was maintained.  That is my responsibility.  I
was the one who asked Manley that if the visit were to take place,
discretion would have to be maintained.  And that is because of very
logical reasons, and I am surprised they are ignored.  It shows that the
press here is not fulfilling its true role.  [applause]  And I will ask you
a question.  Have you read, do you know of the U.S. Senate committee report
on assassination plans against me which the CIA prepared for many years?
Do you know about it or not?  You do not know about it?

Have you seen...yes, excuse me...have you seen Bill Moyer's report on the
secret army of the CIA?  Well, you have seen it?  Has it been shown to the
people of Jamaica?  Why do you not show it to the people of Jamaica?  And
why do you not show the people of Jamaica [applause] the U.S. Senate report
on assassination plans?  Do you know that there are hundreds of terrorists
in Miami with the most sophisticated weapons who were trained by the CIA
for many years?  Do you know that they have great financial resources?  Do
you know that they travel throughout the Caribbean and Latin America with
false passports and disguised as tourists and businessmen?  Do you know
that a plane with over 70 people aboard exploded in flight about a year
ago, assassinating Cuba's young fencing team that had won all gold medals
in competition?  Did you know that when I was in Chile, assassination plans
were made and that they introduced automatic weapons inside a television
camera and that, with identity cards as Venezuelan journalists, they had
automatic weapons and special rifles?  They were right in front of me.  The
television camera was right in front of me with a weapon inside it but they
did not dare shoot because they knew they would be killed.  And
counterrevolutionaries are mercenaries, they are not fanatics.  The
dangerous ones are the fanatics not the mercenaries.  They were right in
front of me in an apartment building with weapons ready and they did not
fire.  When we went to Peru, they moved all that same apparatus to Peru.
When we went to Ecuador for only a few hours, they moved the same equipment
to Ecuador.  When mention was made of a visit to Mexico, they introduced
many weapons into Mexico.  They studied the possible route of the tour in
order to carry out assassination attempts against me.  Do you now know that
imperialism, U.S. governments before Carter created the philosophy that
leaders of the Cuban revolution were a sort of rate animals which they had
the right to hunt anywhere in the world, and that it was imperialism that
created that mentality, that hysteria, that psychology of mercenaries with
the right of assassinate?  Well, those are the reasons why when we travel
we must simply be discreet so as not to make it easy for the enemy to carry
out his task.  If you explain that to the Jamaican people [words
indistinct] you have an open country.  Many planes constantly land in your
country.  Thousands of tourists visit the country.  There are many
facilities for visitors, and this can be used by the terrorists.  I tell
you, it is not a question about which I personally concern myself very
much.  It is not a virtue, but to tell you the truth, I like danger.  I
feel an attraction to danger.  But that is not my problem, it is a problem
of my party, of the leadership of the party and the Cuban Government.  And
if certain measures are not adopted, they would not agree to my traveling.
I have been in the midst of danger all my life so I do not feel bad in
danger, because a life without danger is a little bit boring.  [laughter]
To tell you the truth, I take advantage of this opportunity to express
[words indistinct] excellent work done by Jamaica's (?defense force) [words
indistinct] [applause] by Jamaica's police and by the Special Branch
[applause] because they adopted excellent measures and showed great
efficiency and great capability of organization.  We know more or less who
the terrorist elements are, where they are and what they do.  We know a lot
of things, and I can assure that the measures taken by the Jamaican
authorities were sufficient so that they could not even move.  So, I avail
myself of this opportunity to express our gratitude to the Jamaican
authorities for their efficiency, and also to ask you that you inform the
Jamaican people so that no one gets sad because of it.  It did not stop the
visit.  I have met with tens of thousands of people.  I have personally
shaken the hands and embraced thousands of people in Montego Bay, in the
mines, in the fields, in Savana-la-Mar and wherever I have been.  I had not
greeted so many people for a long time.  And actually it is because I have
confidence in the people, because those who have defended us throughout our
whole life of revolution are the people, the masses.  And that is why none
of these measures has hindered anything.

Look at the interviews we have had and I have not been investigating to see
if there are pistols around or if one of you has a bomb here inside a
camera.  And that is why we can have this broad conference and you can ask
whatever you want.  [laughter, applause]  [Translator to Castro]  This the
last question.

[name indistinct, independent journalist]  In a book that was written in
1971, Sir, you said that you viewed society without the exchange of money
and without the incentive of money,[words indistinct] of money.  You see a
new people without the need of money, people who would not work for the
material rewards but who would work for something else, something more
finally enriching and liberating, for a greater ideal than at present, for
the establishment of a new and greater communism, Fidel's utopia.  How many
years do you think it will take your country to achieve this, Sir, this

[Castro]  Actually, I do not regret having said that.  Those are my ideals
and that is what I consider to be a communist society.  That was said a
long time ago.  Really, one cannot get to communism overnight.  I believe
that no one knows yet how long it will take to get to communism.  A
socialist revolution begins from a capitalist society in which money is
everything and in which men are alienated and are generally selfish and
individualistic.  The socialist revolution begins a new stage in which a
principle is applied that is not yet a communist principle.  The founders
of scientific socialism, Marx and Engels, clearly stated that in the first
phase of a socialist society for the building of communism, the first phase
which precisely corresponds to the building of socialism, the remuneration
formula is that everyone offer according to his capability and receives
according to his work.  In a future society--the communist society, the
final stage--each man should contribute according to his capability and
receive according to his needs because the socialist formula is not yet
totally just since there are men who have greater capability than others,
more mental capability or more physical capability.  And that is why it
cannot be said...Marx said that the socialist formula did not yet go beyond
the narrow horizons of bourgeois law but that, nevertheless, in a realistic
way it was the only formula applicable to the building of socialism.  And
the formula of contributing according to your capability and receiving
according to your needs would be the formula for a very developed society
with a very solid material base and a superior consciousness.  Those are
the principles and postulates of Marxism-Leninism.  Almost all revolutions
have had their times of idealism, their not knowing of the realities and
their attempts at jumping over historical stages.  And we have not been
exempt from that.  We have done many just things.  We have distributed many
things free of charge--education, public health--according to needs, but
sometimes we go beyond those limits.  We went a little bit beyond wanting
to apply communist formulas at a time when the material base was not
sufficiently developed, at a time when in society there was not a totally
superior consciousness.  So, actually I cannot answer your question as to
when a communist society will be established, when communist formulas will
be applied and how long that will take, especially if one takes into
consideration the problems of the underdeveloped world and the fact that
there are (?millions) of people that are [words indistinct] (?we cannot
think) only about ourselves.  What we have we must distribute a bit.  We
must practice internationalism.  We cannot devote ourselves to building our
happiness within our borders.  On the other hand, there are other problems:
An extraordinary population growth, [words indistinct] natural resources.
Therefore, first we would have to define very clearly what the objectives
of communism are and they cannot be those of establishing a consumer
society of the capitalist type.  It could not be to implant in every
citizen's mind the idea that they will have one or two cars.  Can you
imagine every citizen in India with an automobile and every citizen in
China with an automobile?  How many years would oil last, oil which is
already in short supply and being exhausted rapidly?

That is why I believe the objectives of communism must be defined and, in
our opinion, we must give the greatest education to the individual, the
greatest instruction, the greatest of culture, the maximum of health, the
maximum opportunity to develop his personality, [provide for] his needs for
recreation, food, clothing, shoes, housing.  In other words, for the
building of communism, in my opinion, we must get away from the idea of the
capitalist consumer society because I think that is a mad idea which uses
up the world's natural resources.  How many years did it take for oil to
form in the land?  More than 300 million years.  And how fast are we using
it?  In 100 years.  Someday we will regret all this madness.  Someday the
future generations will condemn these types of societies that exhausted
such valuable resources in luxuries.  Someday they will condemn this epoch
because oil produces fibers and even food and we have burnt it among
hundreds of millions of automobiles and things of that nature.  For
instance, we do not promote the idea of automobiles [for personal use].
[We do promote] automobiles for public services and for the technicians in
their work, and light fuels for the chemical industry for the production of
fertilizers and to produce food for the children and for the people.  That
is our concept.  That is why I believe that it is very important to define
what will be the objectives in a communist society [where] man is fully
developed, an integrally developed man but with concepts very different
from capitalist societies.  I think that is a fundamental point.  And in
order to create a new culture, it is necessary to work very hard and it is
necessary to provide a lot of education.  I think that education is the
fundamental instrument of society, besides economic development, to create
a communist consciousness.  Those are my opinions.  [applause]