-DATE- 19900410 -YEAR- 1990 -DOCUMENT_TYPE- -AUTHOR- -HEADLINE- Castro Meets With Evangelical Leaders -PLACE- CARIBBEAN / Cuba -SOURCE- Havana Television Service -REPORT_NBR- FBIS-LAT-90-070 -REPORT_DATE- 19900411 -HEADER- BRS Assigned Document Number: 000006360 Report Type: Daily Report AFS Number: FL1004190090 Report Number: FBIS-LAT-90-070 Report Date: 11 Apr 90 Report Series: Daily Report Start Page: 4 Report Division: CARIBBEAN End Page: 8 Report Subdivision: Cuba AG File Flag: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Language: Spanish Document Date: 10 Apr 90 Report Volume: Wednesday Vol VI No 070 Dissemination: City/Source of Document: Havana Television Service Report Name: Latin America Headline: Castro Meets With Evangelical Leaders Source Line: FL1004190090 Havana Television Service in Spanish 0100 GMT 10 Apr 90 Subslug: [First of two installments of President Fidel Castro's meeting with representatives of evangelical groups and the Jewish community in Havana on 2 April--recorded] -TEXT- FULL TEXT OF ARTICLE: 1. [First of two installments of President Fidel Castro's meeting with representatives of evangelical groups and the Jewish community in Havana on 2 April--recorded] 2. [Excerpts] [Castro] I have only to welcome you, and I do so with great sincerity and great pleasure. But we will have time to talk. Although I do not think there is enough time to talk about all our experiences. I would like, then, to give you the floor. 3. [Raul Suarez Ramos, president of the Cuban Ecumenical Council] We would like to express to you our joy and gratitude for the opportunity of having this meeting. Later on we can express other ideas, but it would be good to let brother Orestes, our executive secretary, tell you who we are, and who we represent. 4. [Orestes] This is quite a large group, Commander; there are 74 of us here. [passage omitted] 5. [Suarez] As you can see, this group of ours is heterogeneous. There is no....[rephrases] We cannot speak of a unanimous attitude toward the revolution. We cannot say that there is a greater or lesser understanding, but there is an element common to all of us which is solidarity with our people, and also our love for our Cuban roots, and I would say, a recognition of what the revolution has meant to our people. 6. Why are we here? Two or three months ago we conducted a survey of the different presidents and brothers who make up the Cuban Ecumenical Council because we felt the need, at a time like this, for the Cuban revolution as represented by you to know that the current situation of our country is not something distant from us, that we are not indifferent to it. The letter we sent to you referred to the fact that without a doubt--starting with the rectification process, continuing throughout the crisis in Eastern Europe; the aggressiveness of the U.S. Government toward the poor peoples, especially toward our people and their revolution, and likewise within this situation which you have described as a defining situation in which everyone is called upon to define his position--we also have observed that the revolution is also trying to define the believers and other aspects of life of our nation. 7. Recently in your visit to Brazil you came into contact with brothers of ours who are involved in the ecclesiastical base communities, and also with their theological thinking, liberation theology. In the call for the fourth congress of the Communist Party of Cuba, Comrade Raul Castro also mentioned the willingness of the revolution to work for national unity and also that the revolution should eliminate any kind of discrimination, however subtle it might be. 8. Moreover, our counterpart churches in the United States, Switzerland, Europe, and other places, want to hear our voice, and all this led us to write to you and present to you the need for a meeting with you, with the comrades of the party and the Cuban Government. We, the Cuban Christians, when we heard about your meeting with the brothers in Brazil, when we saw the first information that came out in GRANMA, we felt a slight concern. You gave us this open and frank opportunity to discuss this matter. When you referred explicity to this, you said, if in Cuba there were.... [interrupted by audience laughter] 9. [Castro] You are very right. [Words indistinct] I also say that you are very right. [applause] I should have thought of you all. [applause] I have to correct this. 10. [Suarez] I thought if I said this to you, you would have to [words indistinct]. 11. [Castro] Yes, [words indistinct] very unjust, because in fact, look, people like you should be in the party, or would be in the party. But of course, the injustice is that I used the other phrase. I said: If we had people like you....[does not finish sentence] I committed an injustice; I do not know if it is in the Bible or wherever, but it says that you give fair pay to sinners. Where is that saying from? Is it from the Bible? 12. [Several people] No, no. 13. [Castro] It must be from a Christian, anyway. 14. [Suarez] We wanted, in this climate of [word indistinct], friendship, and openness, to say this because since before the revolution there have been brothers of ours, Christians, who have given everything for this revolution. And they called me, as president of the Council, and they said to me: Listen, what can we say about this? And we informed Comrade Daniel [not further identified] and other comrades about this, always clarifying that....[rephrases] I imagine the pressure you were under there: so many interviews, without sleeping, all of that. That is, there is no feeling....[rephrases] There is no resentment. 15. [Castro] That was not the mechanism. (?There was no) mechanism. You should get the idea of this blasted mechanism out of your head. And so I let myself be led by the attitude others have had. That is the problem. I was influenced by what they have had. So at that time, yesterday where....[rephrases] I might have made a mistake because I slept about 10 hours that day. [sentence as heard] [laughter] The mechanism is in another [as heard], with a little more contact and with a few more things. At that meeting we had, I talked a lot; I expressed my appreciation for the work they were doing, so it is that. You have done very well to say so. It was the first thing you had to say to me. [laughter] 16. [Suarez] So, Commander, I would also like to express to you what we are hoping for. We hope that the revolution will make the changes necessary for the development of our Cuban society, but that it will do so as you have proposed, from a revolutionary and socialist position; because from the essence of our evangelical, biblical faith, we understand and experience our faith better in a socialist society--a million times better than in a capitalist society. [applause] Our presence is an encouragement and an incentive for this position that you have defined very clearly to our people and to the world. We need changes, but these changes must be from a revolutionary position and without letting up on revolutionary leadership, so these changes will truly benefit our people. 17. We also wish, in this spirit of frankness, that the revolution will also be aware of the problems that at times have affected our brothers and that have limited us in serving our people. The concern about being party members has never arisen from us. There are different opinions on this, but we understand from a just principle of social justice, of political justice, that we can be members and that the revolution should take the revolutionary measures you mentioned. That is, the fact of believing in God for many of us does not limit us from accepting the party program and participating in this with our people. 18. But our highest aspiration, rather than being part of the political leadership, is to be of service to our people. That is where we want that whole issue, which has not been the revolution's policy and has not been understood--its thinking above all has not been understood by some middle-level cadres--that these limitations be eliminated and that we can give ourselves over completely to serving our people without any type of limitation. 19. This should not be because we are Christians for we do not want that, but rather, the same requirements should be applied to us as are applied to any other citizen of our country: human qualities, revolutionary qualities, dedication to the people, and loyalty to the revolution. Based on that, we should not be limited because of the aspect of our faith. That is our highest aspiration. Later some brothers of ours who disagree can also talk about this. 20. And finally, we would like to say to you that we as believers; because of the confidence we have in our God, because of the essence of our evangelical, biblical faith; we always think that the best is yet to come. This is a biblical, evangelical conviction and Marxists also have it: The best is always yet to come. 21. And in this sense we trust in the goodwill of the leaders of our revolution and especially the goodwill of their revolutionary, socialist position. On one occasion I said: I would betray my Christian and Cuban conscience if I did not say that we should thank God for the leader this revolution has had, for what he has meant to our people, but also for the contributions you have made in promoting the understanding of the relationship between Christians and Marxists in Latin America and the entire world, and here in our country. 22. You have insisted from the beginning on the unity of our people and that distinctions cannot be made between believers and nonbelievers. You have made a great contribution to Latin American theology, and to our theology also. We feel grateful for this. We trust in our people, and that our people will overcome all the difficulties and that we will continue moving forward. 23. Those were the things I wanted to say in the name of our brothers. The revolution should know that it can count on us during this period we are experiencing. Inside our temples and our churches, when we are holding our services to pray to God, our brothers pray for you, for God to give you wisdom; so you will be more and more just, more consistent with your revolutionary principles. And then when we finish our activities, the next day, on Monday morning when we are at our studies, work places, in all our activities; we continue our prayers to God in serving our people. For all this we feel this afternoon very happy and very grateful to God and to you for being here, for this meeting we are having. [applause] 24. [Castro] I have been very touched by your words; the comrades who are present here have also been touched, surely. If there is something that is especially important in everything, it is honesty and sincerity. And they cannot be faked. Either one feels that or one does not. Not even the best actor in the world is capable of simulating sincerity. This sincerety can be seen in you, in everything. I was greeting you one by one and I heard many kind, generous words: God bless you, and, we pray for you. These remarkes were made with a lot of spontaneity, a lot of sincerity. 25. But among the prayers you make you have missed one, when you told me you prayed for me to have wisdom so I would be more and more just; that is not right, [words indistinct]. You should have added--so that he doesn't stick his delicate foot in his mouth. [laughter] We need so much wisdom, understanding, a sense of justice, and care, not to make mistakes! But it is an ill wind that blows no good to anyone. Where did that saying come from? [laughter] One is about fair payment for sinners, and the other is about an ill wind. 26. [Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct]. 27. [Castro] Very good. Now let us give the floor to another comrade whom you will pick out. [passage omitted] 28. I would like a lot of people to hear things like what you are saying here, really. It would be wonderful. It would (?benefit) us a lot. 29. [Unidentified speaker] We are not afraid. 30. [Castro] Of course. He says you are not afraid, and I know you are not. It is impossible for whoever is here in this country at this time and with this revolution to be afraid. [laughter] Believe me. One could not find another tighter place right now, because we have almost become the enemy, as I was saying. We are the enemy. They give us much greater importance than we deserve, but the thing is that they give it to us. And that is the reality. [passage omitted] 31. [Reverend Joel Ajo] I have not brought a written, planned speech. I am going to speak to you in the name of the evangelical churches of Cuba. My name is Joel Ajo, I am a Methodist pastor and president of the Methodist Church at this time, and vice president of the Cuban Ecumenical Council. I am also from Holguin. 32. Really, the Cuban evangelical church has many names: Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarenes, etc.; there is also one called Los Pinos Nuevos. And this means we are an evangelical church, but with many denominations inside this evangelical church and with many different ways of thinking. What has been said here is more or less what prevails in general within the church, after the moments of definition our country has experienced, in which...[rephrases] 1963, for example, or 1961, when the socialist nature of the revolution developed or was defined, many people left Cuba. But others of us decided to stay. In 1980, during Mariel, others left Cuba but many of us decided to stay. And up to today we have not thought about leaving our land; that is, we feel happy to be Cubans, we feel a part of the Cuban people, and we love the revolution. It began when we were very small but we also took part in it, carrying messages to the troops that were near the area where we lived, because we also served as couriers at that time, when we were only 15 or 16 years old. 33. So what happens today in our country comes very close to us. And we feel that as the evangelical church we have a beautiful task to carry out in our country. It is not political; it cannot be political because we are not politicians. But it is evangelical, in the style of Jesus Christ; it is to approach those who need something in order to give them something. In our case at this time, I would say that it is to approach you who lead our country to tell you that we are willing to continue supporting you, backing you, that you should take heart and continue moving forward because we see the work you are doing as just and good. 34. But this does not free us from also being able to say that there are things that we understand must be changed. I could not agree with Brother Bermudez when he said that we did not come here to ask for anything. Some people said that there, and I never said I was against that, but now I do want to say so. Because of the freedom that, shall we say, the revolution itself has taught us to have, and also because of the evangelical freedom of being able to be on the Cuban Ecumenical Council but not be in agreement with all the statements of the council present, I think that we do have to ask. 35. A young man stood up and said: We must speak in the name of our congregations, where there are brothers and sisters who have wanted to study in a field like, for example psychology, and have not been able to because it has been said that they are Christians. We have to talk in the name of people who on different occasions have wanted to become something, for example, hold an important position such a post in the People's Government, but it has been said: This guy is a Christian. 36. We believe that the main leader of our revolution should be aware of all this, as is Dr. Jose Felipe Carneado [head of the Religious Affairs Department of the Central Committee], because we have told him on various occasions about the problems we face. And I think that at this time of definition, when the evangelical church is saying we are staying in Cuba to continue to work for the good of our people and to support the revolution in all the just things it is doing, it is also the correct thing for us to say where we think we cannot go along with it. 37. For example, the church at this time wants to build some new churches because the congregations are growing, and the commander should know this, the leadership of our revolution should know this. We have....[rephrases] It is the express interest of many of us, and the Ecumenical Council has echoed this, that if there is a TV Marti that wants to enter Cuba, why cannot we Christians also have access to Cuban television; and on Channel 6, Cuba Vision, begin to preach our evangelical messages based on noninterference in Cuba? 38. We think this is valid. We dream about this and we pray for this, hoping that some day neither TV Marti--which it seems will not come in and we hope it will not--nor the other that comes in, that you can hear, which is Radio Marti, will have to inform the Cuban people about what the Christian faith is; but rather that we ourselves may do this from our own concepts and our experiences as Cubans, children of the revolution, and as Cubans who share the revolution and support the revolution. 39. There are a great number of aspects which the church today is dreaming about and praying for, and we Christians are thinking about them in our base communities. Because also in the base communities, these actions, this process Otoniel [not further identified] was talking about is to have everyone living in the same nation and feeling for the same nation, be capable of joining together in everything that is done in this country for the good of the nation, and for the good of Cubans. 40. So, Commander, I would like to say to you in the name of the entire evangelical church that we hope you will keep these things very much in mind, because they are part of what we aspire in these days to carry forward together with the revolution's plans. And I would not like to leave everything on the note ``we want to have'' because that would mean that the revolution has done nothing. I would like at least to make a small acknowledgement of a concrete act. Perhaps Dr. Carneado has pointed out that change to you because he is looking at me like that. 41. At this time, thanks to the revolution, the Methodist Church has a home for the elderly in Marianao which is being backed 100 percent by the revolution in food, medicine, and equipment. It is a home that is only just now starting up. It has 12 beds. [corrects himself] It has 20 beds, but only 12 old people are there. We hope that it will be expanded, and that through this organization we can also support the revolution, serving the elderly. We are thinking a little, shall we say selfishly, regarding the elderly and the church. But Dr. Carneado knows that someone who is not from the church already has lived there, an elderly lady that I think you yourselves decided should go there, or you sent her. 42. I do not remember exactly how it was. 43. [Unidentified speaker] She is dead now. 44. [Ajo] She is dead now, right. But, well, in this opening up, of being able to say thank you, Fidel, and thank you to the revolution, we also have to acknowledge that part in which you have permitted us to carry out a social work. For us, it is the first one since the triumph of the revolution that we have carried out as the Methodist Church. And this tells us....[rephrases] With this we want to affirm, Commander, the faith we have in that as we are joining together in some areas such as health, we can also join together in others, and we are willing to meet the challenge on our part with the evangelical church in Cuba. Thank you. [applause] [passage omitted] 45. [Castro] I think that the essential things have been said. [passage indistinct]. What I am thinking about is the reasoning. It has been used in different things, what the worker said, not only the things that are acknowledged, the good things; but he set forth the faults, mistakes, deficiencies, and then I have to say some things because I am glad to have heard it all first, to be able to add some things on my account. [passage omitted] 46. [Hector Marquez of the Ecumenical Council] Some of us have had to adapt because of the pressing circumstances or an onerous responsibility, and sometimes it is difficult for us to simultaneously adapt to working in churches, congregations, in towns in the provinces in our country, and at the same time to have to travel, to go to and fro constantly across the Latin American continent. We have not always been able to meet with Christian groups of friends as is the case with Leonardo Boff, Frei Betto, [words indistinct], many of those who talked with you, but the opportunities we have had to enlighten conservative sectors of churches that have good intentions but are very badly informed. This could be seen in the same case of Brazil, because of the maneuvers of the transnational news companies. 47. We have had to explain situations that occur in our country, situations that sometimes are a little difficult for us to explain; for example, what happened to me personally in Angola in 1982. I met with our country's ambassador there at his request, and when he very nicely asked me how I had felt, I told him that frankly I felt badly because I had the opportunity to talk to thousands of people, believers, in Angola, who went to hear the services, and they said to me, surprised: Are there no Christian doctors in Cuba? Of course. Are there no Christian engineers in Cuba? Are there no Christian soldiers? Of course, I said. But you are the first Cuban Christian we have seen. So I expressed to the Cuban ambassador to Angola this concern we had, in 1982. 48. Also, regarding what Pastor (Juela) also stated in Brazil about 14 months ago, we were at a very well-attended news conference. Many of us were there. We spent more than an hour talking about all the positive elements of the Cuban revolution, all the social gains in the field of medicine, health, etc. Unfortunately, what the Brazilian newspapers took was the fact that we do not have access to the media, which is also a reality. They took that fact and they published it. I remember when I arrived in Cuba, Comrade Carneado called me for another reason and said to me: We have already seen your statements in Brazil. I asked: The real ones or the lies? Because I knew how the press had twisted and had used all that. 49. Also, at this time of dialogue with you and the leadership of the revolution, we are confident that many of these things perhaps cannot be changed overnight, but we should continue to make an effort on both sides as has been done recently, so that they may improve. 50. Now I would like, in the name of the denomination I head, the Reformed Presbyterian Church, which this year will complete 100 years of work in our country, it is celebrating its centennial....[changes thought] I have received very strong criticism from some Cubans who left and they say that we are inventing this centennial to play down the American missionaries, which is not true. This is something that has been proven historically. 51. But as an autonomous church we have the right to invite to our celebration whomever we want, and we want to...[rephrases] We know of your many concerns, but we want to invite you to the celebration of our centennial because you are the head of state of this country where we live; you are the president of this country, and as Cuban Presbyterians we invite you and we have the right to invite whomever we consider appropriate. Therefore, please accept our invitation to the ceremonies of our centennial, which will be in Santa Clara in July this year. [applause] [passage omitted] -END-