-DATE- 19910605 -YEAR- 1991 -DOCUMENT_TYPE- -AUTHOR- -HEADLINE- Madrid Weekly Interviews Fidel Castro -PLACE- ANNEX / Cuba -SOURCE- Madrid PRENSA LATINA -REPORT_NBR- FBIS-LAT-91-112-A -REPORT_DATE- 19910611 -HEADER- BRS Assigned Document Number: 000008526 Report Type: Daily Report AFS Number: PA0906163791 Report Number: FBIS-LAT-91-112-A Report Date: 11 Jun 91 Report Series: Latin America Start Page: 7 Report Division: ANNEX End Page: 12 Report Subdivision: Cuba AG File Flag: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Language: Spanish Document Date: 05 Jun 91 Report Volume: Tuesday Vol VI No 112-A Dissemination: FOUO City/Source of Document: Madrid PRENSA LATINA Report Name: ANNEX Target of Broadcast: PRENSA LATINA Havana Headline: Madrid Weekly Interviews Fidel Castro Author(s): Maria Asuncion Mateo for Issue No. 475 of the Madrid weekly TIEMPO dated 10 June: ``Fidel Castro, In-Depth''] Source Line: PA0906163791 Madrid PRENSA LATINA in Spanish to PRENSA LATINA Havana 1655 GMT 5 Jun 91 -FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Subslug: [``Exclusive'' interview with President Fidel Castro by Maria Asuncion Mateo for Issue No. 475 of the Madrid weekly TIEMPO dated 10 June: ``Fidel Castro, In-Depth''] -TEXT- FULL TEXT OF ARTICLE: 1. [``Exclusive'' interview with President Fidel Castro by Maria Asuncion Mateo for Issue No. 475 of the Madrid weekly TIEMPO dated 10 June: ``Fidel Castro, In-Depth''] 2. [Text] ``Franco had a great deal of patience with us.'' ``If I am considered a legend, the United States can take credit for it.'' ``Very few countries dare to defy the powerful.'' ``You may be mistaken in what you say, but you must believe in what you say.'' ``I read the `National Episodes' that Felipe Gonzalez gave me.'' ``Few people are as rebellious as the Spanish people. My rebelliousness is genetic.'' 3. This imposing and fierce looking man, whose colossal physique-half mythological creature and half Moses of Michaelangelo-has disturbed the comfortable sleep of the United States for the past 32 years, and is-whether he is loved, hated, criticized, or praised-one of the most singular and attractive personalities that one may be fortunate enough to interview. What surprises one the most about Fidel Castro is his almost familiar cordiality that instantly dispels any prejudices against him. It is fun to be with someone who cracks jokes with the unaffectedness of a Galician peasant and who shows interest for everyday problems. One gets an historic sense that he is the creator of a revolution that upset the world and changed the course of the Cuban people. 4. [Mateo] It is said that if one searches for man, one finds history. Starting from history, I want to find man. Is that possible? 5. [Castro] Yes, because man and history may sometimes coincide. 6. [Mateo] Can one disassociate Commander Castro from the man that takes off his uniform every night? 7. [Mateo] That is not very easy for me, because when I take off the uniform, I still remember the many things that happened during the course of the day. The same thing happens when I wake up in the morning; I still remember some of the things I dreamt about during the night. Generally, I try to relax, especially by reading. 8. [Mateo] Why always the uniform? Is there some symbolic significance? 9. [Castro] The uniform, like the beard, is not something deliberate; it has no special significance. Since we did not have shaving razors or knives during the struggle, the beard and hair grew long. Without anybody planning it that way, they became symbols. So the peasants, the people, identified the revolutionary guerrilla by the beard. It became our identification, a security measure even, because when the authorities attempted to send agents to penetrate our ranks, they had to prepare them way ahead of time; to be believable, these agents had to have a real beard. As for the uniform, I would say it has become comfortable. We wore it during the war and continued to wear it later. We got used to it, as a monk gets used to his habit and as a nurse gets used to her cap. Afterward, it became very comfortable and, later, very economical. Now, I do not always wear a green uniform. At night when I get home, I put on my pajamas, and when I go to the sea, I wear shorts, since I cannot, of course, swim in a uniform. 10. [Mateo] As happens to important figures, you have a reputation of sleeping little. Is the vigil good company? 11. [Castro] Perhaps, the reputation is not well founded. I do not sleep in excess, but I do try to get at least five or six hours of sleep even though it is not easy. It is said that when Napoleon wanted to sleep, he did it for as long as he wanted to, 30 minutes, 1 hour. He often slept on his horse. I imagine that the work everyone does imposes the need to adapt to circumstances. Since my work requires most of all that I use my brains, I do not get so physically tired that I could sleep on a horse. Sometimes I fall asleep in the car, although I am told that is dangerous. So I try to read. 12. [Mateo] What do you usually read? 13. [Castro] Everything. When I get home and go to bed, however, I try not to read the papers I bring home every night. I prefer to do that in the car. At the end of the day, I receive a file of all sorts of dispatches and reports, which Chomi, my secretary, has already selected from the 80 to 100 documents sent to me every day. (He curls his lips, rests his index fingers on them, in a characteristic gesture, and continues) I am used to having four or five books next to my bed, and I pick them according to the circumstances. If it is a book about science, biotechnology, medicine, or economics-which is the most inaccuarate of all sciences-and I am very tried, I do not touch it. I then prefer to read, for example, a book of the ``National Episodes'' series, as I have a marvelous collection given to me by Spanish Prime Minister Felipe Gonzalez. I have read more than 20, which, by the way, helped me understand the Spanish nature and the history of the Spanish people. As far as books are concerned, these are the gifts that I appreciate the most. Sometimes I read those books that are in vogue and very interesting from the series called ``Private Lives' Histories,'' written by a group of authors. They start in Rome and tell about how a family lives, their customs. They are fascinating. 14. One figure, Simon Bolivar, interests me a great deal. I read all I can find about him. The books talk about Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Hannibal, Napoleon, and many other great men. I do feel, however, that Bolivar is among the greatest warriors, politicians, and historical figures. I am a fan of his, and I read his biography by different authors. I compare episodes that way, I read about the Junin battle or the Ayacucho battle, although he was not in the latter. I follow that history or that of Manuela Saenz, Francisco Miranda, or so many wonderful personages of Latin American history, whom we do not know well enough. At other times, I read the novels that I did not have a chance to read when I was in school or in prison, which is when I did the most reading, because I had 14 to 15 hours totally to myself. I also enjoy reading Gabriel Garcia Marquez very much. 15. [Mateo] What is left in Commander Castro of that young man who left everything one day to begin the revolution? 16. [Castro] I think that I really did not leave anything, nor did I ever believe that I left anything. My life cannot be seen as that of person who leaves everything behind at a given time, as Jesus Christ requested others to follow him. I never had the feeling of leaving what I had to pursue something else. I think that since early in my life I was very restless and rebellious. Some events in my life have helped me sharpen this sense of rebelliousness. Thus, what were acts of insubordination against specific circumstances later became political rebelliousness, with which my vocation continued. I never changed. I think I am still the same as back then and what is left today in me is a large part of what I was when I was still very young. 17. [Mateo] Did this rebelliousness begin with the Jesuits who educated you? 18. [Castro] The confrontation with the Jesuits existed, but you should subsequently take into account that when I was 16, I enrolled in the Colegio de Belen, which was the Jesuit school in Havana. This was a decision that I made and that my parents accepted. It was the best school that existed in the country, and it had approximately 1,000 students who lived inside or outside the school. It had extraordinary facilities. The Jesuits taught me the basic value of such words as discipline, honor, ethics, and justice, which I developed as I became aware of what surrounded me. 19. Nobody ever planted revolutionary ideas in me. I had to develop revolutionary ideas without the assistance of an instructor. My rebellious character is perhaps caused by genetics because of my Spanish and Galician blood, that Spanish character. There are few people as rebellious as the Spanish. I was forced to rebel since very early in my life, when I was about six or seven years of age. I was threatened to be sent to boarding school if I misbehaved. I decided that I would be better off at a boarding school, as was really the case. One day I began to misbehave, and I became so unbearable that my parents sent me to boarding school. That school of the La Salle brothers was good and I had a much better life there than at the house of the teacher in Santiago, where my parents had sent me. Other conflicts appeared later because they used force against me for unimportant things, such as discipline. 20. I even had a personal fight, when I was 11 or 12 years old, with a school teacher; because of that, I was sent off to another house. My parents believed the version given by the school and they did not want me to continue my schooling. I had a serious encounter with them on this. I believed that their point of view was unfair because I wanted to continue my schooling. (Castro talks with a marked slowness, as if the short pauses he makes, to set his eyes far off in the distance, only serve his concentration, and as if the inexhaustible flow of his conversation could never end.) 21. [Mateo] How do you explain your ability to fascinate those you speak with? 22. [Castro] You are asking me a difficult question. In the first place, I would have to agree with what you are saying. Let us say that I do exercise some influence-a fascination as you say-we would have to make a reference, in the first place, to the person I am speaking to. Ever since I was a child, I have enjoyed public speaking. I read Demosthenes, Castelar [Soanish statesman and writer], and other important persons in history. I never studied public speaking, although in high school, we had a subject by this name. It was about the introduction, thesis, body, and conclusion of a speech. I would say that none of that ever had any influence on me. If someone studies speech, he can become a formal speaker, that is, someone who follows a rigid outline. Those studies and reading materials did not have a great influence on me, I even found them boring. I must ask Demosthenes and Castelar to forgive me, but their speeches semmed to me never-ending and boring, almost as long as some of mine. I do not know what people will think of my speeches after they read them, but they are the result of true inspiration and are usually improvised. 23. Nevertheless, I must admit that in the classical speeches, there was something special in the sentences and in the beauty of the words that captured the listener's attention, but that is not the essence of a speech. I believe that the ability to persuade your audience depends on the beauty of the ideas and not in the form; it depends on the meaning of the words, not on the beauty of the words. I discovered that the secret to public speaking, the secret of giving a speech, was precisely not to give a speech, but rather to talk with the audience. Ever since that day, I have been able to communicate and transmit ideas. I believe that the ideas that I set out are just and, above all, honest. You can be wrong in what you say, but you must believe what you are saying, and if you believe what you are saying, you can convince your audience even though you may be wrong. I believe that the fundamental principles are that the words carry a message, that the message is just, and that you are absolutely convinced that it is just. 24. [Mateo] Commander, a lot is being said about the word demagoguery. Who is making strong use of it right now? 25. [Castro] Almost all politicians, chiefly the traditional ones. I think, however, that the ones to use it the most are U.S. politicians, for they are champions in demagoguery. 26. [Mateo] The people may support or disagree with Fidel, but I get the feeling that all of Cuba is united to face any foreign aggression. Am I wrong? 27. [Castro] No, you are not wrong. That is true, and I am very glad you have been able to notice that sentiment in our people. We cannot say they are 100 percent united, but the immense majority of the people is of one mind in this respect and is united to defend the country's independence, because revolution and independence are closely tied in this country. (He concludes as he gently strokes his beard.) 28. [Mateo] You have often stated that in Cuba any citizen can say ``I am the state.'' Is that remark still in force? 29. [Castro] Completely in force. I based that statement on the fact that the revolution could not have existed-let alone defended itself for over 30 years against U.S. aggression-without the people, without an organized, trained, united, and armed people. Peasants, workers, students, factory workers, service sector employees, intellectuals are all armed here. The people are united and armed. I think the existence of a political system like ours, so close to the United States, would have been impossible if the people were not armed. It is the people who defend it and feel they are part of the state. I have told the people they can repeat Louis XIV's phrase: ``I am the state,'' because without them and what they are doing, a socialist state could not exist in Cuba. 30. [Mateo] Commander, does the word revolution have today for Fidel Castro the same meaning it had 32 years ago? 31. [Castro] I think the word revolution has become enriched with new ideas, new concepts, and new experiences. Ideas develop, improve, advance, and have, thus, a much richer content than 32 years ago, although the essence of our ideas was already pretty clear. I also have felt a greater duty to defend these ideas, because our ideas-socialist ideas-are being questioned today more than ever before. There is much confusion and crisis in the field of progressive ideas, and we decided that it is our duty to defend these ideas with more vigor and strength than ever. 32. [Mateo] What is Spain's legacy to Cuba, besides the language? 33. [Castro] Spain's legacy to Cuba includes many things besides the language. 34. [Mateo] Good things, or good and bad things? 35. [Castro] Spain left us both good and bad things because, like all other powers and countries, it has both. A sizeable part of its problems and virtues were transmitted to us. I would say that the Spanish people-if we forget its political systems throughout its history-are great people, extraordinary people. Spain is not only one kind of people, it is a mixture, a variety of people. It would be a mistake to consider the Spanish people as an absolutely homogeneous, pure people because there are several kinds of people in Spain. The Spanish people include the Galicians, Andalusians, Catalonians, Basques, Asturians, or those from Castile. Personally speaking, it took me some time to realize this and Spain became more and more interesting the more that I discovered it. 36. We have received some things from Spain that were part of its history and its political systems, for example, its warring habits, which can be a virtue or a defect. The truth is that the first Spaniards who arrived in Cuba had been fighting for their independence for 800 years. If we see it from this angle, meaning the patriotic, nationalist, Spanish spirit of fighting for the independence, then the warring spirit is a virtue. If we view it as a country which conquers territories and uses force to impose its domination, then it is something negative. The Spaniards had this spirit of conquerors and masters; that characteristic is the source of many privileges, habits, customs, misuse of administrative resources, and corruption. Spain also had a tendency to organize things, wherever they went, the Spaniards organized the town hall, the local authorities, an administration, they also established laws. Therefore, they passed on to us the Roman laws, in addition to their customs, public institutions, some positive, some negative. There is a mixture of everything. 37. One of the best things we have is the language, which is a valuable patrimony because it serves as the universal link among all Latin Americans. In addition to their culture, the Spaniards also transmitted to us their rebel spirit, their character and their courage were combined with Indian and African blood here. We are quite happy to be a mixture of Spanish, African, and Indian blood in various proportions and degrees. There are some Latin American countries that are almost European, but the vast majority is a mixture of races. That mixture of bloods has resulted in people and new ethnic groups that have given us an extraordinary richness. 38. I talked about the rebel spirit, but I could also talk about the Spaniards' tenacity, perseverance, disposition to work, obstinacy or stubborness-whatever you want to call it. We have received some negative characteristics but, I can honestly say, we also received many positive characteristics. 39. [Mateo] Commander, do you remember a song that a Cuban carnival group known as the ``Belen Dandys'' used to sing in the streets of Havana around the 1960's? It said: Sir Marquis, yesterday you lost your shoe, because you put your foot in your mouth when you spoke with Fidel. There the grape, here the sugarcane. Sir Marquis, go back to Spain. 40. [Castro] (He laughs heartily and spreads his arms in an expressive gesture, extending his hands, in which his famous cigars no longer appear, at least not in public.) I remember something like that. I imagine you are referring to that incident in which the Spanish ambassador interrupted one of my television appearances. I believe it was the Marquis of Vellisca, Juan Pablo Lojendio. I was criticizing the Franco regime because that was something that we customarily did, by tradition and almost as a doctrine. I was doing so in a highly tactless and even undiplomatic manner. I must say in all justice and to his honor, that Franco displayed great patience, infinite patience, with us. Also, when the U.S. Government wanted Spain to break diplomatic relations with Cuba, Franco stubbornly refused to do so. Perhaps he acted this way because he had been trained in a tradition that resulted from the opportunist war at the end of the past century, when the United States intervened in Cuba for imperialist reasons instead aiding in its independence. Our historical view of that is very negative, because of the opportunism that it involved, which led to the domination of Cuba for almost 60 years. It was also a humiliating war for Spain. 41. [Mateo] What happened with the marquis? 42. [Castro] Well, as I was saying, I was on television with reporters and said something critical about the Franco regime. I do not remember exactly what. Suddenly a man came rushing like a wild bull along a long corridor, protesting and shouting. He almost reached my table and all but started a boxing match with me. It was the marquis. At no time was any measure of force taken against him. From a certain point of view, what he did was incredible, but very Spanish. Remembering it over time, instead of feeling offended or irritated by it, I think that his reaction was charming and brave. No one would believe me if I say that I remember with understanding, and even admiration, what the marquis dared to do. 43. [Mateo] You must have been told often that you are a living legend [mito], right? Commander, but who can replace a legend? 44. [Castro] First, I am concerned about the word legend, and even more concerned about the term living, because a legend can be given the connotation of something that no longer exists, and legends are created after the person dies, right? I believe the United States can take the main credit for this, because people there have spoken a great deal about us. They have largely opposed us. They have been too hostile. To the extent that a country that is so powerful and that has such great resources, has fought against a country as small as Cuba without defeating it, and to the extent that people have talked about us so much and so poorly, they have helped give us worldwide recognition. I believe the revolution has one great source of merit: it has withstood. The credit does not belong to me. It would be unjust and arbitrary to attribute it to a single man. But that is what usually happens. One man is usually credited with the merit of millions. One general gets the glory of all those who died in combat, when he very often gave orders from far away. 45. In the case of Cuba, the merit of our people has historically, because of some psychological law, been attributed to the leaders. I do not think that way. I believe that our people have earned great merit for what they have done and what remains for them to do. That is what helps give them great fame and what helps make the name of Cuba well-known. This fame is also influenced by the fact that very few countries are in a position to, or dare to, defy the powerful, and Cuba has done this. For a long time, we were even said to be a Soviet sattellite. Today, when important changes are taking place in the USSR, when the world situation is different, and when the cold war no longer exists, it is clearer than ever that the Cuban people are a sovereign and independent people who are no one's satellite, a people who function on the basis of principles and ideas. We are a satellite around a sun of justice and a sun of revolutionary ideas, but not a satellite of any nation, any country. The latest international events and the bravery with which the Cuban people are facing the consequences of the international situation, have helped increase Cuba's prestige as a heroic and brave country in many areas, especially in the Third World, where there is great affection for us, although not as much as in the developed world. [sentence as received] Thus, there is a tendency to say: ``Castro did this; Castro did the other,'' thereby personalizing historical processes. That is not my concept of history, I always attribute things to the people. All this that I have said may be the reason for, and the explanation of, the fact that someone might say that I am what you call a ``living legend.'' 46. [Mateo] Garcia Marquez wrote ``The Colonel Has No One to Write His Story.'' Does the same apply to Commander Castro, or is too much being written? 47. [Castro] (He nods, folds his arms, and lowers his voice, as if to tell a secret.) My problem is the opposite. Many people write to me, both from here and abroad. We make every effort to answer, but logically, it is necessary to be selective, to some extent. I participate personally in some of the responses, but to do so for all the letters is impossible, because even if I devoted myself entirely to that, I would not have enough time to answer all of them. So far, my problem is the reverse: the commander-you have to reduce the rank-has too many people telling his story. 48. [Mateo] One of your most widely known and admired phrases is ``history will absolve me,'' the title of one of your books. Do you believe that history has already absolved you, or will a lot more time have to pass? 49. [Castro] Realistically, history has had different interpretations over the course of 3,000 years, and one cannot guarantee the impartiality of these interpretations, because that depends on the writers, on the ideas of the writers, and on the social sector from which the writing is done. Some say the history of Greece was marvelous, while others say Greek society was in no way democratic, it was an oligarchy in which only a few had the right to vote, while the immense majority was deprived of that right, and the others were slaves. Yet Greece is always cited as an example of democracy. Later, there was talk of Rome and the Roman senate, but modern history says it was a great empire and reports all the things that are now known. During the French Revolution, for example, Brutus, who killed Caesar, was exalted. Later other revolutionaries said that Brutus represented the Roman oligarchy and that Caesar had defended the rights of the plebeians in Rome. In the same way, there have been writings in favor of and against Cicero and many other historical personages. When I said: ``History will absolve me,'' I was referring to very specific events: the attack on the Moncada barracks, my trial for my part in that attack. It has a relative meaning, namely that the people will some day recognize the cause; nations will some day recognize the justice of our cause. The facts will show us to have been right, was what I meant, and so they have. Every day there is a new history, the entire history of our revolution, of the revolutionary process, and of the construction of socialism in Cuba, with our successes and our mistakes. Nevertheless, if I were to be in the same situation and there were to be a trial, I would not hesitate to repeat the same phrase: History will absolve me. Sooner or later, the people will say that we were right. A great number of peoples have already done so. People look with admiration at this page written by the Cuban revolution over the course of more than 30 years. The facts in the end will show that we were right. We cannot know if it will be tomorrow or the day after, but when you have absolute confidence in the justice of what you are doing, then in that sense, I would say again: History will absolve us. 50. [Mateo] One last question, Commander. Where is Cuba headed? 51. [Castro] Cuba is headed toward a consolidation of its political achievements and of the revolution, and toward a perfecting of its socialist system, as it faces today enormous difficulties, enormous obstacles that we feel sure we will overcome. 52. [Mateo] I hope you do. 53. [Castro] Thank you very much. 54. [Mateo] I wish to express my personal admiration to you, Commander. 55. [Castro] I am flattered. It was indeed a pleasure to answer your questions. -END-