-DATE- 19911019 -YEAR- 1991 -DOCUMENT TYPE- -AUTHOR- -HEADLINE- Castro Discusses Free Farmers Markets -PLACE- CARIBBEAN / Cuba -SOURCE- Havana Cuba Vision Network -REPORT NO.- FBIS-LAT-91-207 -REPORT DATE- 19911025 -HEADER- ********************* Report Type: Daily Report AFS Number: FL2310213091 Report Number: FBIS-LAT-91-207 Report Date: 25 Oct 91 Report Series: Daily Report Start Page: 4 Report Division: CARIBBEAN End Page: 18 Report Subdivision: Cuba AG File Flag: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Language: Spanish Document Date: 19 Oct 91 Report Volume: Friday Vol VI No 207 Dissemination: City/Source of Document: Havana Cuba Vision Network Report Name: Latin America Headline: Castro Discusses Free Farmers Markets Author(s): President Fidel Castro and other party members, held at the Heredia Theater in Santiago de Cuba-recorded] Source Line: FL2310213091 Havana Cuba Vision Network in Spanish 0130 GMT 19 Oct 91 Subslug: [``Excerpt'' of highlights of the 13 October session of the Fourth Communist Party of Cuba Congress, with remarks by President Fidel Castro and other party members, held at the Heredia Theater in Santiago de Cuba-recorded] -TEXT- FULL TEXT OF ARTICLE: 1. [``Excerpt'' of highlights of the 13 October session of the Fourth Communist Party of Cuba Congress, with remarks by President Fidel Castro and other party members, held at the Heredia Theater in Santiago de Cuba-recorded] 2. [Excerpt] [passage omitted] [Castro] I have been waiting until the discussion ended to make some comments. I want to express some thoughts but I did not want to exert any influence, I did not want to influence any views which the delegates might have, since we are very interested that this subject, or any other subject, be discussed with complete freedom. 3. I think we have been very democratic. We have done things correctly. We have not been excessively democratic, but correctly democratic. I think it honors our congress that any comrade, in this case the delegate from Pinar del Rio, had wanted to discuss this subject again and did so from the first day, even though this subject had already been discussed in the province. He introduced this subject together with other subjects and we, undoubtedly, agreed with him, especially on how the debates, the preparations, and the speeches were to be conducted, on what to say, and all other issues of this kind. He also took the opportunity to say that he had some other things he wanted to talk about and that he was interested in discussing the issue of the free farmers market. I said, we are going to engage in a debate on the free farmers market. 4. I believe his request to discuss this issue is correct for one reason, and I believe we will all agree. Many people in many places brought up the issue of the free farmers market during the assemblies to discuss the call to the congress. I think it is good that this subject was also brought up and discussed in the congress. We know there are many militants, common folks, and honest people who ask themselves the same question and wonder if this could be a solution, whether this might help to somehow solve the problems of the situation we face. 5. I believe that in order to understand well this issue, although many arguments have been brought up, there is still a lack of supporting arguments. It is a matter of important concepts. There are even historical precedents, such as the role of small properties, of mini-states, of large production enterprises, of work productivity, of agrarian production, all those issues. 6. At the beginning of the revolution we almost made an enormous mistake as a result of tendencies prevailing in the international revolutionary movement and departing from the socialist experience in which the first thing always done was to distribute the lands; they distribute all the land. That is the way it was done in the USSR and in Bulgaria. I was told that 3 million parcels of land were distributed in Bulgaria. The land was also distributed in the USSR. I have my doubts that in the USSR [5-second break in reception]. There was no machinery, there was no technology, there was nothing. All they had were millions of [words indistinct] who were tired of feudal exploitation and looting and who wanted the land. The slogan of the Bolshevik revolution was: peace, bread, and land. They lacked economic development, manual labor, literacy, and machinery. There was also a strong political demand for the land to be distributed. Giving each person one or two hectares of land so that they could be self-sufficient, was the best thing they could do. If they produced more than they needed, then that food was sent to the cities. 7. For years the farmers produced and produced more than they consumed. But there came a day when it became evident that the small land owners could not supply all the food for the people. The most the small land owners could produce was 40 or 50 tons of cereal, but in the long run they found that the country would not advance or produce more food if they did not unite the land. Their biggest problem, the serious problem, [8-second break in reception] so they used force to unite the land. They used forceful measures to unite the land. There were many peasants who were revolutionaries and they were willing to help; however, there were others who were not willing to help. The idea of the gulags was developed and the gulags in Russia had six or seven, perhaps 10 hectares. Some of our peasants still have 50 or 60 hectares and we have never called these areas gulags. We have respected them, we have used different terminology, ideas, policies. The Soviets who had to unite the land to promote the production of food [4-second break in reception] gave way to the use of force, to catastrophes, death of animals-many people killed their animals-and they had to pay a very high price for doing this. Almost all that land was divided into cooperatives. The peasants were given a piece of land, maybe half a hectare, 4,000 meters, 3,000 meters, some had more, some had less. During my first visit to the USSR I was able to see that the piece of land they gave to the peasants differed according to the Republic. For example, in Georgia the peasants were given more land. They were given a hectare, a hectare and a bit more. However, everyone was given a piece of land. All those peasants whose lands were divided into cooperatives were given their piece of land. I believe they also created some subplots. These subplots were not cooperatives but state enterprises. 8. Despite the way it was attained, despite technological backwardness in the field of agriculture, the land was united. They did not use enough fertilizer, they did not apply science to agriculture, they did not use the best seed or the best variety, they had no machinery, however, they implemented a process of mechanization. 9. Some things happened in that country. I believe one of the things that happened was a man called Lysenko, a great adviser and theoretician in the field of agriculture who had much influence. I have read Lysenko's books and many other books on agriculture and I believe Lysenko was mistaken in several things such as fertilization and crops. It seems he was a great [3-second break in reception] the great experts. We must avoid those great advisers. We must avoid those men who are turned into geniuses and who know it all. Specialists are needed to give advise and ideas, but a great adviser can get a prominent party into trouble and can get a government into trouble. 10. Some time ago, when I was trying to solve the problems our country was experiencing, I read much about agriculture and I came to the conclusion that, to a certain extent, Lysenko's ideas-and he was a knowledgeable man in many fields-were not always correct and they exerted a negative influence. But despite all this, they increased their cereal production by four fold and produced 200 million, 210 million, 220 million tons of cereal. 11. In the past the Soviet people ate cereal, oats, and dark rye bread. Then they started eating more meat and eggs, and drinking milk. The people were no longer eating only cereal. They no longer wanted to eat only cereal; they wanted other foods. To produce these other foods, they had to invest three and four times more cereal. Despite their large cereal crops, despite their 220 or 230 tons of cereal production, they did not have enough. To this we must add that, they did not have a good infrastructure. They did not have enough silos and warehouses to store the cereal, therefore, some of the crop was lost. But that was the way the Soviet agriculture developed. 12. Other countries improved. They also copied the idea of cooperatives, but they used more fertilizers, used better technology. That is why we see that Czechoslovakia had a very good agricultural system. Bulgaria had a very good agricultural system. Those who visited Bulgaria witnessed this. They joined millions of small land plots and ended up building large agroindustrial complexes. These were all cooperatives. The Hungarian people developed very good cooperatives. East Germany had very good cooperatives. The USSR was left behind in agricultural development because [6-second break in reception]. It has been proven that small land owners could not solve the food problems. 13. There are other examples. Mexico for example. I speak often with the Mexicans. I am referring to the ejidos. That is a little piece of land that was the result of the revolution. The amount of food that Mexico must import is tremendous. There are more than 80 million Mexicans and they need large amounts of corn, cereal, and other things. Mexico does export some vegetables and some tomatoes. Mexico has the manpower and good [words indistinct]. They export vegetables and flowers. There is a growing demand for flowers from many of the developed countries. When I talked to the Mexicans, I have given them my views on the matter. I have told them: well, you are [4-second break in reception]. Why are you not self-sufficient-I am not talking about a socialist country, I am talking about a capitalist country? Because they have millions of pieces of land. They must have irrigation plans for all that land. They must mechanize the agricultural system, they must apply technology, microjet [6-second break in reception]. [Words indistinct] seven caballerias and has a processing plant that uses cables to move the plantains to the water to be washed and then to the boxes for packing. I keep telling them: You have a thousand plantations [4-second break in reception] plane to take it to the processing plant. Along the way it [6-second break in reception]. And the world today is not turning toward the small enterprise. In Europe and the United States they are turning toward mechanization and concentration of the land. 14. The Yankee imposed an agrarian reform on the Japanese. They went into the country and gave everyone a piece of land. The Japanese tractors look like toy tractors. They cultivate the land with their bare hands. The Japanese pick rice by hand. The Japanese hectare yields much more than the American hectare. They can easily produce six tons per hectare. They do their planting by hand. However, the American cannot produce six tons per hectare; he probably gets three or four tons. The Japanese put in 50, 60, or 70 hours to pick five tons of rice, whereas it takes the North American six or seven hours to pick three tons, three and a half, or four tons. They produce less per hectare, he has more land, and produces much more per person. [sentence as heard] 15. Now, there are subsidies for the small land owner. When rice on the international market sells for $300, $260, or $250 a ton, the Japanese Government pays the rice farmer $850 for the ton of rice. Almost three times the [words indistinct]. Europe also subsidizes, but the tendency is to concentrate the land, mechanize, and increase production. In those countries there are fewer and fewer peasants. No, the land ownership does not solve, nor will it ever solve, the problems of food for the ever-growing world population. 16. This is an important precedent. At least, we had a warning. [10-second break in reception] the viewpoint of the People's Socialist Party. That party was a staunch and loyal supporter of the International Communist Movement. The tendency in Cuba, following the triumph of the revolution, was to distribute the land in little parcels like it was done in Bolivia after that famous revolution, and like it was being done everywhere else. Am I correct, Carlos [Carlos Rafael Rodriguez]? More or less? Well, tell me. Tell me. We are at an open congress. 17. [Rodriguez] It was not the system back then. 18. [Castro] It was not? 19. [Rodriguez] It was not. [Words indistinct]. 20. [Castro] In what year? 21. [Rodriguez] [Words indistinct]. 22. [Castro] After the triumph. Why? 23. [Rodriguez] They reached the conclusion that [words indistinct]. 24. [Castro] We reached the conclusion that.... 25. [Unidentified speaker, interrupting] There were large estates and we felt that the state should be given these large estates and that the state should work them. The small units of land would remain in the hands of the peasants. What we did during the first phase of the revolution was to defend the idea of small parcels of land being distributed among the peasants. 26. [Castro] Fine. Lionel [Lionel Soto Prieto], what was the theory behind this? Pardon me, but there are some old communists here. Lionel? [Words indistinct] What was the theory? 27. [Soto] The distribution of land. When the right to work land that belonged to someone else was implemented in the USSR, the peasants.... 28. [Castro, interrupting] It belonged to the state but the man who worked it.... 29. [Soto, interrupting] The person who had the land, enjoyed it and worked it. 30. [Castro] Only a piece. 31. [Soto] In other countries the land was distributed. As far as I recall, the party's position in the early days of the revolution was that large estates had to be taken over by the state. It seems to me that we were not very clear on the issue and the distribution of land was the idea everyone supported. 32. [Unidentified speaker] I can bring an article written by me that served as the basis for the policy.... 33. [Castro, interrupting] In what month? 34. [Unidentified speaker] No, no. Years before the revolution. 35. [Castro] Oh. 36. [Unidentified speaker] Years before the revolution. Well, I recall that.... 37. [Castro, interrupting] On not distributing the land? 38. [Unidentified speaker] On not distributing the land. 39. [Castro] I congratulate you. 40. [Unidentified speaker] I believe that the party's platform.... 41. [Castro, interrupting] You, Osmany [Osmany Cienfuegos], who were a sort of a communist or within the rank and file of the communist party.... 42. [Cienfuegos, interrupting] I am not going to talk about the theory. I do not know what theory the socialist party had at that time. 43. [Castro] Carlos Rafael? 44. [Cienfuegos] In practice, as early as 1959 land distribution was started because of well-intentioned influences exerted by members of the People's Socialist Party. I remember when you announced your decision. It was in Las Villas, in Yaguajai. You decided to halt that distribution. I do not recall the theory, but in practice those actions were initiated. 45. [Rodriguez] That is what happened. 46. [Castro] Risquet, old and noble member of the old and noble communist party, let us hear from you. 47. [Risquet] I really do not know a lot about the theory they had, because when this happened in 1959 I was in Oriente Province. My opinions are the ones that were expressed in the first resolution of the congress of the party, our Communist Party of Cuba. I think it was a magnificent resolution. This resolution corrected two things about the cooperative movement. One was what you have said: that there should not be small properties within the cooperative if they did not cover the members' consumption, correcting the mistakes we had seen in socialist Europe. Two, the resolution of the first congress prohibited the free farmers markets. 48. When we discussed the free farmers markets, one of the arguments I used-and I remember that there were eight months left before the second congress-is that we were violating the resolutions of the first congress. In a few months we were going to hold the second congress. Let us have a pilot project now, without violating the first congress' resolution. I opposed the idea of the free farmers market from its inception. 49. [Castro] I congratulate you. And what was to be done about the land? What were the prevailing ideas in 1959? 50. [Risquet] Well, we had the sugarcane cooperatives. Even sugarcane land was.... 51. [Castro, interrupting] Your memory is failing you, Risquet. 52. [Risquet] What? 53. [Castro] Your memory is failing you. 54. [Risquet] Why? 55. [Castro] Because that was later. 56. [Risquet] Well, 1959, 1960, I do not remember. 57. [Unidentified speaker] Fidel. 58. [Castro] Pepe [not further identified], is a man with a lot of authority and respect. I am afraid that if he talks here, he will bring down all my theories. Alright, Pepe, you have the floor. [applause] 59. [Pepe] Thank you for your praise. In the first place, I am going to give my opinion about the questions you asked. This was very [words indistinct] agrarian reform under the leadership of the old party [words indistinct]. Certainly, when I first joined, the propaganda of both, the Party of the Revolutionary Communist Union [Partido Union Revolucionaria Comunista], and later the People's Socialist Party, was a true agrarian reform that distributed land [passage indistinct] therefore, you have to distribute it among half a million people.... 60. [Castro] Right. You are the one most authorized to talk about this. 61. [Pepe] But in addition, in addition [repeats], Fidel [words indistinct]. 62. [Castro] You were involved in this. 63. [Pepe] I remember that, if my memory is not letting me down, in your book, ``History Will Absolve Me,'' in mentioning agrarian matters, you also talked about distributing land to the farmers who did not have land. 64. [Castro] But I was talking about the cooperatives. 65. [Pepe] Of course, you were talking about the cooperatives, certainly. 66. [Castro] No one had talked about cooperatives, because at that time I did not want to distribute land. 67. [Pepe] Yes. Well, the old party also talked about cooperatives, but basically they talked about distributing land. This was a fundamental slogan. And that was the propaganda of Grau San Martin, and the propaganda of all the bourgeois parties. Agrarian reform, but when they came into power they forgot their promises. 68. [Castro] I do not want to compare those shameless people with the members of the People's Socialist Party. 69. [Pepe] No, no, of course not. 70. [Castro] In no way. 71. [Pepe] Of course not. Now, Fidel, about the other topic, allow me to speak briefly about the topic that gave rise to this. 72. [Castro] No, no, not now, I am not talking about that now. 73. [Pepe] But will you allow me to speak or not? 74. [Castro] About the free farmers markets? 75. [Pepe] Yes. 76. [Castro] No, because it would interrupt my story. I want to talk about this. 77. [Pepe] Oh, yes, that is true, you are right. I will speak later if you wish. Pardon me, pardon me. 78. [Castro] For greater illustration .... 79. [Pepe, interrupting] Pardon me, and it is very good that you should do so, very good. 80. [Castro] I am not criticizing the People's Socialist Party and its policies. I am not criticizing them. Since I became aware of Marxism-Leninism and began to read a lot of books and books that were everywhere, and based on all the historic experience which always has great strength, the prevailing idea, the catchword for the farmers-and it is still so in many parts of the world, in the progressive movement-is the distribution of land. 81. The Chinese also did this. They distributed it by mu. But mu does not mean that an ox says ``moo'' here, and someone says that an ox is distributing land. No, a mu means about 900 square meters of land, less than one tenth of a hectare. Land was distributed to everyone. I do not doubt that this has been done correctly in many places, and I do not question it in China. They even distributed it a second time, and I do not question this. That was when they created the communes, and I can explain why. So I do not criticize this policy, because it was very revolutionary. It was a class struggle, and if there are millions [word indistinct] going hungry and unemployed, what better and more revolutionary watchword than distributing the land? 82. Now, in Cuba the circumstances were different. In Cuba there was [words indistinct] all this. The revolution triumphed with enormous popular support, from more than 90 percent of the population. The revolution did not have a political need to distribute land. As a political need, it is very nice, very pleasant. I thought the revolution was strong enough to pursue other changes. Because it was very clear to me that if we distributed land, we would destroy agriculture in this country. The country lived from agriculture. I can imagine 1,000 caballerias of sugarcane, which supplied a large sugar mill, divided up into [words indistinct] each farming family would plant a bit of sugarcane, another of yucca, sweet potatoes, corn, [words indistinct] and all those other things peasants plant [words indistinct] for the sugar mills would end, and the country's sugar exports would end. The hopes for mechanization and all those things would end. 83. I had the deepest conviction that since the revolution had triumphed with that great strength, the revolution did not have to pay that price to strengthen itself politically. I say, with the same tactical, strategic, and revolutionary criterion, that if the conditions had been different, with great sorrow I would have proposed the distribution of land, because that is very nice. If we had had to distribute land to save the revolution, we would have had to distribute land. No, I said, we must save the chance to develop a great... [rephrases] modern, mechanized, and highly productive agriculture. 84. Of course, it is beside the fact that at that time we did not have a single-party system. There were several parties, and each one had its own style. We would have to do a critique-which is not appropriate now-of the style of each of the three basic organizations, which were the 26 July Movement, the People's Socialist Party [PSP], and the Revolutionary Directorate. Each one wanted to do what was best for its organization, according to how each organization saw things, and according to how each group within each organization saw things. [Words indistinct] history. Our own organization was very heterogeneous. I said it was like an immense river, like an Amazon of people and that a stream [words indistinct] our organization was not enough for that enormous mass of people. The PSP was isolated and it was a small party, but it had prestige and influence among the workers, from which it had been expelled completely [words indistinct] more members, more organized, and it had its own policy also. Is that not true, Carlos? Or do you not remember the things we talked about in the Sierra Maestra, during that famous offensive? But we are not going to hold that conversation here. [Words indistinct] the Jibacoa [words indistinct]. 85. [Rodriguez] [Words indistinct] the party plan to make sure that what I am saying is [words indistinct]. 86. [Castro] No, no, Carlos. History is history, and the different stages, phases. All this is nice. This is not.... 87. [Rodriguez, interrupting] [Words indistinct] true, but they are two different things. The distribution of land was in Las Villas.... 88. [Castro, interrupting] I am not criticizing, Carlos, I am giving an opinion. I am not criticizing and I thought your policy was correct. 89. [Rodriguez] No, no, no. Fidel, you are talking about history. 90. [Castro] Yes. Now, when the revolution triumphed, and everyone was sectarian, the sectarianism of the PSP. I am not talking about the sectarianism of Anibal, but of the party in general, with all the excellent relations we had. They were excellent. I really educated myself with the books of Marxism-Leninism that Carlos Rafael sold at [words indistinct]. I still have a debt pending there. I bought some when I had a little money but they also sold me books on credit. 91. Back then the books came from the USSR. Everything was printed in the USSR. No other country printed these books. I had been buying those books for years because I was a communist who was not affiliated with the party. I had my ideas, my concepts, all that kind of thing, and I was absolutely convinced, that it was correct, absolutely correct, to make a socialist revolution. So this is old. It is not from 1959. Many people followed the line of socialism after the revolution [words indistinct] socialists or communists and all that. But since the organizations had their policies and each one wanted to win over supporters, you know this, they recruited [words indistinct] and if he was a soldier, the more quickly he was recruited. This was a conspiracy. It cannot be called anything else. They were careless in that sense because they could have created very serious divisions and disputes. They could have created [words indistinct]. That is history. 92. But I remember that in these battle between the organizations, there were attempts to take over land, and land was taken over. [Words indistinct] a dispute, and not only a dispute, [words indistinct] a law that anyone who took over a piece of land would lose the rights the agrarian reform might give him. It was necessary to pass a law. The law is there, and I wrote it. Really, those were the ideas that were in vogue. The prevailing tendencies and the belief in doctrine, could have resulted in a slack [relajo] in our organization. We did not yet have a single-party system. From very early, we began to work for unity. This was [words indistinct] before the agrarian law was passed, which was in May. So we passed the law so that this would not happen, but that rather we would have an orderly reform. 93. So this orderly reform, many of the [words indistinct] were something else, one more step. Then we realized we were moving backwards. One of the most combative sectors of our proletariat were the sugarcane workers, educated by Jesus Menendez and the Communist Party, and we were moving backwards politically, ideologically. We were going to [words indistinct] and proposed the cooperatives. I myself had proposed them. All those large sugar plantations would be sugarcane-growing cooperatives. But after [words indistinct] these workers are not cooperative members. They are agricultural workers [words indistinct]. I had to meet with the 1,000-plus cooperatives and during a lengthy meeting I had to persuade them that they should no longer be cooperatives and should become states enterprises, people's farms, in order to develop, property of the entire people and not property of the cooperatives. But we did not distribute land. 94. Another thing was the situation of the farmers who had pieces of land as squatters, renters, sharecroppers. Without any discussion, we gave them ownership of the land, to those who already had their little piece of land. That was the promise, to give the land to the farmers who paid rent, sometimes one third, sometimes 40 percent, sometimes half of their crop in rent. Later came the agrarian reform. We discussed the agrarian reform law. Che [Guevara] had asthma and was at what is today the Pioneers' City. We held several meetings there. We drafted the law quite quickly. You [not further identified] were there. How many of us were there? You remember quite a lot of all these details. 95. [Rodriguez] (Pino Santos). 96. [Castro] Who? 97. [Rodriguez] (Pino Santos). 98. [Castro] (Pino Santos). 99. [Rodriguez] Blas [word indistinct]. 100. [Castro] Who? Blas, Che. 101. [Unidentified speaker] Was the president of [words indistinct] there? 102. [Castro] No, no, that must have been someone else. No, that would be someone else. [repeats] There were several commissions, but the commissions that were drawing up the law a few days before the signing of the (?money) law [words indistinct]. Jimenez, who was the great historian and geographer, was there. [Words indistinct] various people [words indistinct]. That law was conservative and moderate. I made a few changes to it. I do not know if the papers are somewhere. While on the plane, I even made changes to the law after that commission had studied it. 103. Well, the 100 caballerias were left in, although, very reluctantly. Those were the highly developed farms. And I put in the 30 [not further specified]. Thirty when there were Yankee companies that had 15,000 caballerias. The fact is that the law was radical, very radical. [Words indistinct] this law lacks something. Look it up. 104. I sneaked the concept of cooperatives into the agrarian law. The draft we took with us to the Sierra did not include this concept. We filled it in along the way. The implementation of the agrarian reform even was more radical than the law. The implementation was even more radical. I want to tell you that if we had distributed the land we would have destroyed agriculture in this country. 105. Nevertheless, we had other experiences. Our 26 July Movement called together an enormous assembly of workers, at the beginning of the revolution when the companies did not yet belong to the state, demanding a fourth shift at the sugar mills. I had to confront a crowd the size of this crowd who were frenetically supporting that demand. And the leaders of the [words indistinct] and I do not want to mention names. What for? None of them are here? They were agitating for a fourth shift. I said: This is crazy. This is absurd. The problem of employment in our country cannot be solved by distributing what there is, running short on everything, but by developing the country. In spite of the fact that it was still a private company, I had to become a magician. How to convince the workers, who were seeing the difference between what they wanted and what the capitalists wanted, that the fourth shift was not a good idea. They believed that that was the bourgeois economy [words indistinct]. They claimed they would not do as they pleased with that money, that they were not going to use that money to develop the country, because that was written in ``History Will Absolve Me.'' But, ``History Will Absolve Me'' was moderate thinking in which I made the maximum use of my moderation, in order not to start talking about Marxism-Leninism or socialism, because that would have been very absurd. [applause] 106. I made use of [words indistinct] and that the state [words indistinct]. If you read between the lines you will see that ``History Will Absolve Me'' is the essence of a socialist program. The state had to develop that program, not the law of free enterprise, the law of supply and demand. Back then I was already against the famous market economy. I was no more than an adolescent recently graduated from university in 1953. I was already against the market economy, but I could not come out and say that. But I said that that was not the way to develop the economy of the country. I said that the economy had to be nationalized; that it had to be a state task, a state matter. Many did not pay attention because so many programs had been drafted [words indistinct]. The first revolution in this country in many [words indistinct]. 107. [Unidentified speaker] [Words indistinct] that no one would have noticed that [words indistinct]. 108. [Castro] But there were some 10 or 12 who knew about this. These were people I had indoctrinated into communism, with the books of Marx, Engels, and Lenin, the literature from the party library. Because we had Marxist study circles, before 26 July. But all that was done under cover. [applause] 109. [Words indistinct] saying all those things. Telling them how things should be done. It was a plan we wanted to implement. We saw ourselves implementing it in phases. The best thing I could do was to free myself, not holding myself to anything. First of all because I was stupid. Second, Carlos Rafael got me into the party. And we would not be experiencing the special period because there would have been no revolution. [laughter] We would still be copying the books. We would no longer have a party. Well. But we did what had to be done and we did it properly. We had firm ideas. 110. How did we handle the [words indistinct] sugar. Anyone who wishes can calculate what sugar has given this country during these 30 years of revolution. Just think of the good price we have been paid for it. All that money has been used to build schools, hospitals, and a million other things [words indistinct]. The standard of living is above that of the other Third World countries. This has been done even though we have not put our resources to optimum use. Cuba is one of the countries in the world that produces more food per capita. For every citizen in this country, we feed four people in the world. We give them calories. Perhaps Argentina can produce more per capita, but I am not sure of that. However, Argentina has 60 times more agricultural surface than Cuba. 111. It is a country with [words indistinct] produce food for 40 million people in the world. There is no other country. Whatever is said, our agriculture produces. It can produce much more. We know this very well- bananas and everything, with the technology and organization, and all that-but agriculture was saved and we have to do many other [words indistinct]. 112. Then we developed the state enterprises. We bought land. Then we promoted the cooperative movement. There were two agrarian reforms, one that put a cap of 30 [caballerias]-and 100 in exceptional cases-and another, stronger one that coincided with Hurricane Flora. That one made a cutback to five caballerias. That one was traumatic. The first affected a few hundred landowners, and the second affected thousands. 113. I will never forget that at the time of the floods caused by Hurricane Flora, [words indistinct] in the middle of the night, we had to go [words indistinct] around there by the Cauto River. I talked with the man about this and that. He did not even have candles, but he gave us shelter. It was all flooded. He had a farm, and he had just been affected by our agrarian reform law. He had 10 or 15 caballerias. I asked him about what he had. He told me, and added that now he had this much. Here I was seeking shelter from Hurricane Flora and ended up at this man's home, and he had been affected by the reform. I was really embarrassed. [laughter] Well, the truth is that he was not very rich, [words indistinct] a little more in practice, but a limit of five had been set. [Words indistinct] caballerias by the Cauto with [word indistinct], and 20 other caballerias, planted with potato, in Guines. They are very different things. 114. But our laws were not perfect. The second [words indistinct] the dairy farms, the house, everything, and we got the land. Well, the other one was even harsher, because it represented an expropriation or confiscation of 30 caballerias, with all the buildings. They were left with the house and nothing more. That second agrarian reform law was a harsh one. But we enriched the state land holdings. Later we bought, rented, and so one, until we had [words indistinct]. The farmers were left. 115. Then we started the cooperative movement. We did it in order of priorities. Our first investments were in dairy farms, [words indistinct], enterprises that were owned by all the people. We gave the farmers the ownership of the land they had. Some were the legal owners. [Words indistinct] farmers also wanted [words indistinct] from the state. Even some who had [words indistinct]. When a catastrophe hit, we pardoned their debts. I am convinced that no other farmers in the world have ever received better treatment than the Cuban farmers received, without discussion. The received generous, noble, respectful treatment. They were treated as allies. We said: You are our allies, and they are our allies. Our allies were those who had less than five caballerias. 116. Then we guaranteed those farmers their markets and market prices. We guaranteed them loans, machinery, fertilizers, everything. We did something more: We promised there would be no further agrarian reform. We have kept this promise during the 32 years of the revolution [words indistinct]. Some became members of cooperatives. 117. We started a movement. It grew, and our cooperatives, organized by small farmers are excellent. That is, as a rule, right? They are productive. They have high productivity. For many years we gave them more resources than we gave the enterprises. First they moved their houses, then they built magnificent houses. The cooperative members have houses like doctors used to have. We gave them trucks, combines; we gave the cooperative members everything. We continued to give the individual farmers all the [words indistinct]. There would be no [words indistinct], and if they wanted to be there on their land all their lives, that was all right. That is the agrarian policy the revolution followed, and I do not think any other country has followed that policy. That is also why we have such good relations with the farmers. 118. Well, the farmers had schools, all kinds of opportunities. First, the literacy campaign, teachers, schools of all kinds, scholarships to study in pre-university schools, and the university [words indistinct]. They were given the opportunity to become engineers, doctors, teachers, nurses, officers in the Revolutionary Armed Forces, officers in the Ministry of the Interior. The revolution gave so many opportunities to those who left the rural areas. They ran from the rural areas. 119. One of the problems we have today is that we lack a labor force in many rural areas. If you were to analyze the statistics for tobacco in Pinar del Rio, which is grown on small plots, we see that each year there is less tobacco. We see that the farmers are older each year. If 3,000 caballerias were planted, [words indistinct]. We are making a great effort to increase production. How do we increase this? We are organizing agricultural camps. What happened in the agricultural areas of southern Havana Province? That everyone left. The revolution, with the possibilities it created for man, produced this logical and spontaneous movement. Everyone wanted to study a career. The peasants, the grandparents and parents, [words indistinct] got old. 120. [Words indistinct] a young woman [words indistinct] the people's government in Guines, about 15 km [words indistinct]. The role of the people's government is to create [words indistinct]. This was not said here. Everyone created payrolls in industrial quantities in this country, and between being out there weeding the fields and being in an office with a fan, it was a lot more comfortable to be in an office with a fan. To have a fan, and go on visits on Sundays. I visit a lot of farmers' houses, and I like them a lot [words indistinct]. I see what small farms are here, and I know some excellent farmers. We have them as advisors, you see. We recently created the Institution of Farmer-Advisors. We have about 12 advisors. There are 20, 25, or 30 who are researchers, creators, knowledgeable men. We are taking advantage of their experience. A farmer could do what the state could not do. 121. Many people from the eastern provinces moved to Havana, like the ones who made their own little town in Alquizar. There are those who received a piece of land and I think there are, I do not know how many families there. The farmers hire them. Sometimes they hired people from the state factory to harvest the crops. How much did they pay them? Thirty pesos or 40 pesos. The state could not pay 30 or 40 pesos for potatoes that were being sold at 6 or 7 centavos each. In addition, this would create chaos with very high wages. The farmers received and still receive the same price for their [words indistinct], therefore, when they are short of workers, those caballerias can pay for their work force. They hire retired people, residents of the area, and pay wages that the state cannot pay. Many of these small farms have kept going. But they keep going, we support them, we will continue to support them, we defend them, and we coordinate with them. 122. Now, the cooperative movement was doing wonderfully well. Listening to Comrade Carlos, he said some true things, that there is a black market and all that. That is an old market. It existed before the free farmers markets and after them. [Words indistinct] says it will not solve anything. [Words indistinct] and we applaud the fact that the plans are [words indistinct]. He saw the free farmers markets as a way to avoid the problem of the black market. The only black market we have here is not an agricultural product black market. That is perhaps the smallest black market that exists here. That is what I believe. [applause] 123. Here there is a black market with those who steal avocados. The people of the Habana Vieja contingent picked 500 quintals last year; they harvested 3,500 this year. A man came by and took 15 quintals of avocados, that is a source for the black market that has nothing to do with the problem of [words indistinct] but with theft and crime. 124. This means whoever takes a bag of yucca, or kills an animal at the dairy farm, or steals a few pigs, some chickens, all that is a source for the black market. Some steal 100 chickens and will not eat them. They sell them. They kill a steer, but will not eat it; they sell it. They kill a pig, or several pigs and sell them. All those who steal from the cigarette factory sell those cigarettes on the black market. Those who steal fabric sell it on the black market. Those who steal shoes, perfumes, or other merchandise, everyone who steals a container from the port sells it on the black market. 125. But there are people who sell on the black market from their rations. I know families who do this. I have talked with social workers.... [rephrases] A woman-since there are no restrictions on having children like in China-has eight children. She has a baby every year, and each one has a different father. Is this not terrible? No, I am not criticizing this woman on moral grounds, not at all. These are things that happen in life. She went out and got a room somewhere in one of the buildings where some people live. She has her room. She does not have to ask anyone's permission. Here we do not have those restrictions. We do not have restrictions on moving from any province to Havana and finding a place [words indistinct] without having a husband. So, what does she do? She sells half of her milk ration, and some of the rice ration, and some of something else. There are two adults and neither one of them works. Do you know what they live on? The rations. That is a source for the black market, but it is an old, well known, and tolerated source. But rationing was a necessity, and praise rationing. One day we will have to build a great monument to honor this rationing. We did not have the World Bank, or the Inter-American Development Bank. No one gave us any of that. We were able to have all the teachers and doctors we wanted. We did not have the famous excess of money that would put prices sky-high and make holes in the people's pockets. Rationing has done a great service to this country. But there are people who trade on their ration. We have just now created a source for the black market with the cigarettes. Because if two million people do not smoke, and they are given cigarettes-and we know the price they pay for cigarettes on the black market: 5, 6, or 7 pesos.... 126. [Unidentified delegate, interrupting] Ten! 127. [Castro] Well, I am conservative. [laughter] I base this on conservative estimates. We are giving a 17-year-old young man cigarettes. Maybe he will give them to his father or brother. Very good. Maybe he will say: Well, if I want to go to Pabexpo or somewhere, I am going to [words indistinct] and we have given him the material, whether we knew it or not, whether we liked it or not. [Words indistinct] deserve all the attention and all the respect. If we were going to put an end to the black market for produce by setting up the free farmers markets, if that was one of the fundamental objectives, why would we not put everything on unrestricted sale? Put everything up for sale. Soap, [words indistinct] cigarettes, the container from the port, and all the other things. We have to fight against this evil. We cannot solve [words indistinct] interests of the collective [words indistinct] good desires to eliminate the existence of the black market. But when I see what it gives, I do not agree with [words indistinct]. They claim it does [words indistinct], well, I say the opposite. I say this gives less. It provides fewer goods for the people, definitely, really. 128. We made a great mistake, an enormous mistake, when we set up the free farmers markets. We are a party, democratic centralism exists, and we must obey it. If you agree tomorrow on the free farmers markets, I will be the first to obey. The party leadership agreed on it. I naturally had my opinions, but I respected, and I do not want to evade my responsibility, perhaps it is a great responsibility [words indistinct] that wonder. But, well, it is an idea. The issue came up every time we experienced a crisis. Whenever we had a crisis, when we were short of this or that, the idea popped up. Those who defended the idea, some of those who defended the idea are not among us. They did not have a clue of what a crisis is. Problems are the ones we are having now. 129. They said we lacked some hard currency, or we lacked something, some poultry, some chickens, some turkey. And we were able to obtain some of that. It was a mistake in many senses. Well, everyone who visited Moscow saw free farmers markets. Very good. But in Moscow, all the agricultural workers and all the cooperative members had a piece of land. They had agricultural production. In addition, they used the enterprise's grain for the chickens, cows, or pigs. I remember that Khrushchev in that famous congress when the (?Stalin) [words indistinct]-I read real thick books on this and went around philosophizing a lot about all this-they themselves were beginning to discover that the free farmers markets [word indistinct] was negative. They, [words indistinct]. I remember when they replaced him for reasons of health and age, [words indistinct] one of the things they accused him of was that he was against the small farm plots. And they gave more plots, more facilities, and more grain for the small plots. It was a political thing. [Words indistinct] but Khrushchev said at that famous congress- Carlos, you who know so much about the history of the communist movement, look up what congress that was, I think it was in 1961 or around there 1960-the one where [word indistinct]. In the beginning he denounced it, but later [words indistinct] the first congress of the CPSU after the triumph of the [Cuban] revolution. A tremendous problem, and I will not forget it. I was thinking about all this. When they thought they could catch up with the United States, which was another of their crazy ideas, or one of their crazy ideas, they tried to introduce the consumer society as an ideal and a concept of socialism. That was one of the great ideological mistakes of socialism, I say. But no one has analyzed this. We had thought about analyzing it, but it will take some time to do. One of the great strategic mistakes was to put into people's heads to consume, consume, consume, to reach the levels of the United States. All that is madness. But he was sincerely concerned [words indistinct] and he launched fertilizer production program, a great program in those years, and was concerned about all those small farms. And the disorder this brought about because many farmers worked the small farms but did not work the collective land. Yet they used the grain. If I were given a piece of land the size of the floor in front of this table, and they give me the grain, I would raise 10,000 chickens. So they raised the animals, and produced milk, meat on that land. It is the most unproductive way of producing. With a good feed formula, well-balanced, which we, gentlemen, unfortunately, cannot have now since one day we get corn, the next we get wheat, and then the next we get soy, the formula has to be changed every day.... [changes thought] Because of all these problems that I have already explained, and because we do not have the money to go out and buy it on the international market from enormous distances away, nor the ships.... [changes thought] The other day I did not mention that some of the merchandise the Soviet fleet used to bring must now be brought by our fleet which has grown a lot but is still not sufficient to bring what the country needs to import and take what the country needs to export to other places. Our fleet is not big enough to bring a considerable part of the merchandise the Soviets used to bring. With all the unfulfilled deliveries, it is impossible for us to ensure balanced feed for a poultry farm here today. Before, we even had our reserves. So, balanced feed gives results. You can use up to 3 kg for 1 kg of poultry meat, and so much feed for a dozen eggs. We had reached [word indistinct] levels, however, today these levels have been affected by the ingredients of the feed. 130. The most unproductive thing is for a person to feed them corn one day, wheat the next, something else the next, because what is spent to produce one pound of chicken or eggs is much higher. There is nothing more efficient than an enterprise [words indistinct] and so poultry-raising was developed. I do not recall how long eggs were unrestricted in this country. Where were they produced? All of them, 100 percent, were produced in the state enterprises. There were no eggs produced by small farmers. Beef in this country [words indistinct]. A large part of the sugarcane in this country is produced in the state enterprises. The cooperatives also participate [words indistinct]. The farmer also cooperated when we succeeded in the long struggle for him to hold back his sugarcane. Good prices were paid, but there were other things out there that provided more income on the black market. 131. The small farmers have a larger share in tobacco. They have a larger share in some crops, in the coffee crop. In our country it is really the state enterprises that supply most of the food. Almost 90 percent of the rice is produced by the state enterprises. There are some good cooperatives, and we want to help them, encourage them, give them flat terraces so that they will produce more. The thing is that in this country it is the noble state that produces the food. The state also produces food for 40 million people in the world, in calories, mostly for [words indistinct] agriculture that produces. But what is not produced also matters. Wheat for bread, powdered milk, cattle feed. Much of that came from the socialist bloc. Another part of it had to be bought with hard currency from the West. We had to depend on others for some of our supplies. 132. We began the free farmers market when the organization of our cooperatives was, with great good sense, based on collective self-sufficiency. Otherwise, in a country where land [words indistinct] like in the USSR where a town is 3 km long and 3 km wide [words indistinct]. What town can we build on the farms. [Words indistinct] a greater percentage of arable land. The farmers' cooperatives could have their own child care centers, schools, all those things, drinking water, electricity. Because giving a piece of land to each person forces you to build farmers' communities [words indistinct] state enterprises collective self-sufficiency. Cooperative farms, collective self-sufficiency. Pepe was right in saying that [words indistinct] defend the idea of small farms within the enterprises. The farmers of the cooperatives [words indistinct] and a number of farmers have their piece of land somewhere. One or two hectares that he received for [word indistinct] the land. [Words indistinct] three fundamental factors, the production of [words indistinct]. The credit and services cooperatives, the agricultural production cooperatives, and the [word indistinct] cooperatives are the fundamental factors for supplies. So, we had a farmers market, even for some farmers who did not have the piece of land they had in the USSR, but who had 60 hectares, 40 hectares, 30 hectares. When a farmer like that, paying any kind of wages to harvest a caballeria of garlic, harvested 1,000 or 1,500 quintals and sold a bunch of garlic for $1. He got thousands of dollars [words indistinct] and that farmer who had 4,0000 square meters, 3,000 in the USSR, a farmer had one, two, three, four, five caballerias [words indistinct] at free prices. If the prices are not free, then there is no free farmers market. [Words indistinct] 20, 30 or 40 percent more. Either it is free or it is not free. Why? Otherwise, why would they do it. 133. They began to earn large amounts of money. The cooperative movement was going to hell. It would have been good for this country for the cooperative movement to continue its progress until one day [words indistinct] we would have had to find combines, machinery, [words indistinct] We would have had to [words indistinct] a plane to spray herbicide, pesticide, or spray fertilizer. None of that can be done. You cannot use modern technology and machinery on the large plantations. [sentence as heard] You have to go with a backpack and do everything by hand. Sugarcane must be cut by hand [words indistinct] cane-growing farmers here. [Words indistinct] the city workers. For years we had thousands of farmers who did not cut cane. We had to plant and cut the sugarcane for them. The money was put in the money in the bank. Has this ever been done anywhere in the world? Nowhere. Some measures were taken: Well, sirs, if you cannot work the land, then sell it. Do something, but work it. So we made the free farmers markets for a group of farmers who had land, and they had quite a bit of land. They made large amounts of money. Not all of them; there were many farmers who always refused to go to the free farmers markets. They felt ashamed to. Their sense of honor prevented them from going there. But, there were some of those apostles of socialism, which we have had in this country, who felt that other problems had to be solved. They claimed that to compete with the farmers and lower the prices, the cooperatives should also be included in the free markets and compete with the farmers. 134. In order to compete with the farmers, the state should also participate in the free farmers markets. A tremendous distortion was caused in the existing cooperatives. They began to produce things that had nothing to do with agriculture. They wanted to have restaurants, bars, parties, businesses, motels, manufacture of handicrafts, and what is worse, some cooperatives that could produce these things, took their permits, got hold of an illegal vendor, bought all the vendor's products, and sold it as if they had produced it. All of this occurred. When rectification began, all this had to be stopped, really. 135. What did many farmers do? They would hold back some of what they were giving the state and would sell it on the free farmers markets. The fertilizer they received for their sugarcane, instead of using it on the cane, with which we buy oil, wheat, rice, and so many things from the USSR, they would use to fertilize some rows planted with garlic and a number of other things. They made a larger profit by using the fertilizer on those things than on the sugarcane. Should I use the fertilizer for this or for that? For something that I can sell at a very high price? Should I use it for this or that? Keeping up the sugarcane became a real headache, with the business they could have selling some of those other things at the free farmers markets. It was better business to have a few chickens, plant a little corn. The few chickens could be sold for 5 or 6 pesos a chicken. All that happened. We began to corrupt these farmers. We should have won them over to socialism, and the cooperatives, and modern production, and for the production that was needed. And what did we do? [Words indistinct] and many laughed at cooperative members. 136. I had an idea that with rectification, the free farmers markets had to be eliminated. We had to study it, take some time, analyze everything well. One of the first things that was done was to start a parallel market as a source of income and to achieve a financial balance. A pound of rice was being sold for 1 peso, and the state is giving them a ration of rice. The state should be selling it and the money used to find those things that Rodriguez was concerned about-the financial balance. The parallel market was a way of [words indistinct] to meet some needs and collect money. Not money that was going to end up in private pockets or one man's pockets. This was money for the state's pocket and used for hospitals, schools, the country's development, to help people. What does the state want money for? Where does the state's money go? There may be excess staffing, excess everything, but there are 300,000 professors and teachers who must be paid. There are doctors and nurses, 700,000 people in the health and education services who are paid by the state. 137. Well, the market, the parallel market was expensive. The parallel market took its prices from the farmers markets, and became a source of state income, because we knew there was a need for (?products) not only for the cooperative movement. It was not only that people here began to get very rich. Materials were sold freely in some places, in Havana. People from Santa Clara would come with their trucks and all to get the materials that were sold freely in Havana in order to build themselves little palaces. When were we going to start building cooperatives if all the peasants were [words indistinct] buying the materials without restrictions. 138. Intermediaries arose, and they brought plantains and all those things from as far away as Holguin. They began to affect the production of the state enterprises. They made themselves comfortable. How wonderful! They planted two or three things and did not plant a parsley plant, or a garlic plant-nothing! The free farmers markets made the state enterprise people happy. Did they plant okra, string beans, or condiments? None of those. Now there is a program for planting condiments to take them directly to the small markets. There was none of that. [words indistinct] and this began to affect the basic production of the small farmers themselves, because of what I have explained about the fertilizer and other things. That is what the country's economy depended on. 139. We corrupted the small farmers. There are many very wealthy farmers. I know very wealthy farmers. They became rich honestly, without the free markets, because a farmer who has one good caballeria of potatoes, can earn tens of thousands of pesos. The state buys potatoes, pesticides, fertilizers, and an honest, hardworking farmer who needs workers and pays them 20, 30, or 40 pesos, can earn 30,000 or 40,000 pesos a year. I know good, honest farmers who have hundreds of thousands of pesos, and never participated in the free farmers markets. Because the prices the state pays to the farmers are really very high, and the state sells at low prices. 140. One of the things that I think we must do in some cases is to find a better balance of prices. We want to encourage the production of some things by our farmers [words indistinct], we must pay a little higher price. We must raise some of the prices a little for some agricultural products in order to encourage the farmers' production. One plants something that gives him a lot, and another does not want to plant it. When one has to deal with the farmers, one has to pay them a price for their products so that they will not [words indistinct] and plant other things the populace needs. [Words indistinct] raise some of the prices a little for some things. Some are too cheap [words indistinct] could cultivate other things. But of course, [words indistinct] the price of the product rises. Some prices have already been raised and [words indistinct] on the market to encourage the production, which is the only thing that we are all talking about and not the pricing policy. 141. We have not wanted to solve the problem through pricing. The comrade president of the State Committee for Finance explained here the problems arising from an excess of circulating currency. But under special period conditions, it is impossible to prevent an excess of circulating currency unless we begin doing what they do in other countries which is to put half the workers out on the street. Raising prices sky-high is the solution applied everywhere, in capitalism and neoliberalism. We have even refused to raise the price of electricity. We have preferred the vexatious work of persuading conscientious people not to use so much electricity, while there are shameless people who do not use less. We do not want to leave a single citizen without a job, leave a single citizen without an income even though we cannot guarantee him a job. We do not want to leave a single citizen unprotected. Only socialism can do this. 142. But what can we do in the special period, when the amount of goods has decreased? If we are receiving $3 billion less in goods than we were received in 1989? It is $3 billion less, when you total everything that no longer comes from the USSR, plus what no longer comes from other socialist countries [words indistinct] dollar to dollar, it costs more. Can you imagine what it means for this country that in less than two years it has stopped receiving $3 billion in imports, that exports [as heard] have dropped by half, and we do not want to sacrifice anyone. If we continue with this principle of not sacrificing anyone, how can we not have a financial imbalance? The monthly income in money that is received is more than what is spent. [as heard] Anyone can do the mathematical calculation and find out how many people have to be turned out into the street or how far wages have to be reduced, or how far prices have to rise. Try to match that. Who does this hurt? Who? Someone who has 300,000 or 400,000 [not further specified], those who had the free farmers market and all that. Who does this hurt? The poorest people, the retired people. It is not that we do not think that some things can be done, but whatever is done in any sense, must always be such that it will not hurt the low-income workers, the honest ones who live off their wages, who are not illegal vendors, who do not go around stealing things. [applause] 143. These are very delicate subjects, and we have considered them again and again. Now, excess money is worth less. That is why the price of a cake of soap has gone up and things run short. That is why a packet of cigarettes, and bars of soap, and all those things [cost more]. Now, we are talking about this moment. We do not know [what is going to happen] if the situation gets more complicated. The plans for a special period in wartime involve evacuating many cities. The [words indistinct] plans for special period in wartime. We do not yet know what kind of measures we will have to take if fuel is reduced to half or one third of what we have today. We must think about this. [Words indistinct] to meet our goals. We must think about what we are going to do. Can we perhaps [words indistinct] in hard currency? [Words indistinct] and money does not have the same value. Perhaps the most likely thing is that they will keep it so that they can exchange it for a cake of soap, or for this or that. For something I do not have. He takes [his products] to the market, collects the money, and what does he buy? 144. But we had corruption. There were small farmers.... [changes thought] As a rule, there were no old junkers left. With a few exceptions, there were no old cars left which did not end up in the rural areas. The small farmers were able to buy up however many of the old junkers. Not only those who participated in the free farmers markets, but some who earned their money honestly did this, because of the prices of the goods they received. I know honest farmers who have their cars. They paid 20,000 or 25,000 [pesos]. Others used to go to the cities, and they bought those apartments we had given to workers and families in the cities for their daughters or sons, or newly married couples, or students. They paid 20,000 or 25,000 or 30,000 or 40,000 pesos for an apartment. They had surplus money. 145. Of course, the illegal vendors also do this. Of course, thieves also do this. Embezzlers do this. They do this. But with the free farmers markets, we established a process of corrupting the farmers. We harmed the major economic sectors. The cooperatives and state enterprise almost got involved in this. Of course, the situation is not the same everywhere. It does not happen in a town with a few farmers around it, but it does happen in the large cities; it happens in Havana where there are 2 million inhabitants. [Words indistinct] if not these plans we are making now, if not these plans. [repeats] 146. How are we going to supply them when we have to produce 15 million [quintals] of vegetables and tubers in Havana and we have never even reached 10 [million quintals]? But with these plans that we have talked about we are going to reach 15 million. We have to reach the 15 million under conditions which are more difficult than the conditions at the time when the plans were created. The first drafts of the plans were done in 1989, 1990. We had large amounts of fertilizers and many other resources we do not have today. But we drafted plans to produce the amount of food that the city needs. We would not be able to supply these large cities if it were not for the food program. 147. Therefore, it is logical that more dreams of a free farmers market reappear when the parallel market had to be eliminated. Why did we have to eliminate the parallel market? Because everyone asked that whatever was being sold there, was evenly distributed among all, even if it was only a can a month. [Words indistinct] do not sell it unrestricted anymore. The people asked for this. They said: look, do an equitable distribution, so at least we get a little. [applause] How are we going to sell a chicken on the parallel market which brings in a lot of pesos when there are no chickens to fill the quota. Or, how can we sell rice or beans when there is none to fill the quota? When we established the parallel market we were clear on this from the beginning. Whenever a product that is being sold is missing from the quota, it will be automatically eliminated from the parallel market. This was the condition on which the creation of the parallel market was based. When products started to be sparse, the parallel market was eliminated. 148. There were some products that were being sold freely, similar to a parallel market but different, products were not in the quotas, were being sold at a determined price. Yogurt could have been sold at 60 centavos. We did not want to implement a policy on this. What did the people ask? That yogurt be distributed to them. [Passage indistinct] being sold freely everywhere. Because the people asked that it be [words indistinct]. 149. I now ask myself, if we are going to have free farmers markets, is it not a contradiction that a chicken is sold there for 10 pesos. A man with lots of money can easily pay up to 20 pesos for that chicken. What is going to be the people's reaction? Happiness? Unless the people hold the false illusion that any four bums will overload Havana with chickens. What are the people going to say when they try to buy a chicken and it costs 20 pesos? They will say, why not distribute it by the gram among everybody? It is paradoxical, that on one side the people had asked that everything that was being sold freely be sold at normal prices and were happier because now they could get things that they never got before. 150. The line stander [colero], the man standing in line to buy the cream cheese being sold, for as many things as could be sold freely the line stander was the man in business. Many people say: I cannot stand in line. Please! Bread? Sorry, I cannot stand in line. The line standers were the ones buying bread freely [therefore we] rationed the bread. Would it not be a great contradiction if we now were to begin to freely sell chickens at 20 pesos when the people had asked that all products be regulated? How long is the line going to be in order to buy a chicken freely? Tell me, do we really gain anything from this, from restarting the process of corruption? [Audience shouts: ``No!''] That is my reasoning: It is a contradiction. It can be nothing more than an illusion to think that this could solve a problem, because when this existed, all the quotas had no backlog. When the free farmers markets were eliminated the parallel market still existed, and it lasted for years. In the parallel market, even turkeys, rabbits, pigs, and a lot of other things were sold without hampering anybody's quota. Sometimes things we imported things or special productions were ordered. Everyone asked that free sales be halted. Then, where is the logic of the people asking for a free farmers market? 151. There is something else. Rodrigo [not further identified] said that [words indistinct] much money around the place and we recently had to make a very serious decision to solve the cigarette problem. We already explained why we had to do this. The machines were too old, lack of discipline, absenteeism, lack of raw material, disorganization. [Words indistinct] all the factories are located in the east [corrects himself] in the west. We are planing to built two factories here in Oriente to avoid having to bring truck loads of cigarettes. We have old factories in good repair in this region so that we can open two factories here. But it all got disorganized, [words indistinct] the coordination on the part [words indistinct]. 152. This was a sector that during the days of capitalism had enjoyed certain privileges. When the regulation of wages began, they kept their traditional wages, but well, there was bad management, bad administration, lack of rigorousness. This gave rise to problems even of theft of cigarettes. The party in Havana has fought against this, and I can assure you that a tremendous effort has been made. It continues to be made and will continue to be made. Besides this, an incredible amount of money, and the lack of other products has increased demand for cigarettes. What should we do with cigarettes? Cigarettes are not milk, yogurt, cream cheese, beans, or anything. Do we ration them? How do we reconcile rationing with a campaign against smoking? It is the devil. I said to a comrade here: Do not smoke. To a young man, I said: Do not smoke. I recommend that you not smoke. And on the other hand I am ordering two or three packets of cigarettes. This is the same man I am telling that he will die because he smokes. There is a tremendous contradiction in this [words indistinct]. It is like the famous [words indistinct] and the lack of the product. [Words indistinct] and suddenly we said we are also going to ration them. There was not even a campaign against smoking then. Then a parallel market was started when there was a surplus, with much higher prices. We had a dilemma. What do we do with this poison. Do we ration it, do we distribute it? We put a very high price on it because it is poison and we also collect money. It balances things out. We talked about putting a lower price on cigarettes, a little more than 3 pesos, not 10 or 5 or 6, and sell them without restrictions. The executive committee analyzed this a lot. Then we met with the Havana people's government bodies, all the presidents of the councils [words indistinct]. Then we met with the organizing commission. We said: We are not going to get the party into this on the eve of the congress. The almost unanimous opinion was, as painful and paradoxical as it would be, not to solve this through pricing. In spite of the fact that it is poison. The absolutely majority view prevailed that they should be distributed through rationing. Do you know how many pesos the state will no longer receive because of this? Nine hundred million [currency not specified]. Look what we could have done with that money. The state would have received 900 million [currency not specified]. And now that we are in the special period we established the policy. We said that new factories would be opened and an effort made to increase production. The other things can be sold without restrictions when they are sold, without any rations or increases in rations. The new amounts of poison are going to be sold at very high prices. Well, we will collect money from those who have it, and we already know who has it. But we will get a little money. That is the idea, the idea of increasing rations. But the state will no longer receive 900 million per year, in order not to harm those who have less, so that those who have more money will not smoke and now we are going to establish the free farmers markets so that hundreds of millions [of pesos] will end up in the hands of private individuals, and what is sold there would be part of what is delivered or must be delivered? I think that [words indistinct]. What do we do with the small farmers? We are working with them, and our relations with the small farmers are very good. Our relations are not bad. They are not all the same. There are many farmers who are very good and very revolutionary. 153. How are we doing the plans in Havana? In Havana we have 22,000 hectares owned by the state, and 10,000 hectares owned by the cooperatives, and 10,000 hectares owned by private individuals. 154. What is this service from? I am not referring to those who have [words indistinct] tubers and vegetables in Havana are based on those 42,000 hectares. We have increased this amount by almost 5,000 hectares [words indistinct]. Since the rectification process began, 750 caballerias that had been planted with sugarcane were planted with tubers and vegetables. This has also been done in Santiago. In spite of this, sugar production has not dropped. We even plan to increase it. We plan to put in irrigation and all that-that is if we can, right? If we have a minimum of fuel. 155. In the entire country, more than 5,000 caballerias have been turned from sugarcane to growing tubers and vegetables, since the rectification process began. The amount of land area with irrigation has doubled in this country. The water management system has been revived in this country, and we are building more projects than ever. We are even building a dam on the Mayari River, and we are building a tunnel to carry the water from the Mayari River to northern Holguin and central Holguin, where it is so dry. We intend to carry the water one day from all that northern part, the Sagua River and all that, to Las Tunas. Think of what a project that is, and we are working on these projects to make the water supply even more and more secure. 156. When we have droughts, like this year in these provinces, it is hell. But we are building dams, minidams, irrigation system, canals as if the devil were after us. They are primarily for tubers and vegetables, and for sugarcane. The province has 100 caballerias of bananas; 70 of these have microjet irrigation, and 30 have Fregat irrigation machines. This is for bananas, right? How many caballerias have Fregat irrigation? 157. [Unidentified speaker] Thirty and 70 with microjet irrigation. 158. [Castro] And 70 with microjet irrigation. This is a great effort. In Havana the peasants are working. I meet frequently with the state enterprises, the agricultural production cooperatives, and the credit and services cooperatives. That is how we draw up the plans to supply 2.1 million inhabitants plus those in Havana, which gives 3 million people. Do not draw up a plan with irrigation and equipment, do not devote what little fertilizer we have to this alone, and see if you can really supply the 2 million, the 3 million people we must supply here. There are more when you count some of them twice, in the schools and the factories. 159. What have we told the farmers. Well we have told them: Look, we need this many potatoes. How many do you want to plant, 10, 20, 30, 50 [not further specified]? Plant them. We do not tell them: Look, you have to plant this many potatoes. We say: How much garlic do you want? Oh, you want all garlic. It is a profit-making crop. They can have all garlic-the farmers of the credit and services, not the cooperatives; the cooperatives operate with a lot more coordination. There has been the same coordination as with the enterprises. But we have to ask the individual farmers what they want to plant. We need so many caballerias of carrots. How many do you want? This many. They like to plant carrots, it grows almost wild. How many [words indistinct]. We let them choose what they like, and we give them seeds and all possible resources. 160. Of course, we are introducing real technology into state production. We have acquired some experience as have some small farmers who have small plots. The tomato seeds, the sweet potatoes, how these should be planted to get 7,000, 8,000, 10,000 quintals; what varieties of yucca should be planted. [Words indistinct] yucca seeds and sweet potato seeds. They came from the provinces. Somewhere around there we have a plan of what we calculate Havana will need. We have reduced potatoes a little to plant more yucca, because potatoes are expensive-the seeds and pesticides. But we have perfectly coordinated the plans in a very orderly way between the three sectors: the state, the cooperatives, and the small farmers, with whom we have excellent relations. 161. They even have enough money to make candy. Do you know what we tell our peasants? What is needed is patriotism. I know that to obtain money you do not have to do much. But the country needs you. The country needs your help. It does not matter if you have 200,000 or 300,000 pesos, the country needs the food that can be produced in those lands. We are appealing beyond the peasant's spirit of gain to their patriotic spirit. What is money today? If you have 300,000 pesos what do you want 350,000 pesos for? You can just sit at home and do nothing. We are offering them the best technologies they can get. There are some crops that are grown in small plots. Some crops. That is not possible with sugarcane or rice. [Words indistinct] garlic, some onions, some types of crops in which the great plantation is not the solution. A great plantation and mechanization is the solution to the major and fundamental crops. But I have been working with the farmers and have some experience. In the last year, I have dealt and visited a lot with peasants and I believe that today you can conquer peasants more with with patriotism than with money. I can tell you. [applause] 162. They have money. Some crops they like more than others because they are more familiarized with them. They could probably produce more and maybe increase their wealth a bit, but that is not the most important thing. I know some outstanding peasants with very good production who are very patriotic and decent and only their friendship, their love of the country, their love for the revolution inspires them more. 163. I do not know the details of how things are in every province, but there are areas in Pinar del Rio where they have planted hundreds of caballerias with tomatoes. There are thousands of people of Havana. I want you to tell me how those people move, what money do they use to move to the southern part of Havana Province in these months of November, December, January, and February, to those solitary places where there are no trees and the mosquitoes appear in great numbers. I have gone there to visit the citizens of the city, people like this comrade from Plaza who just spoke to us, from Guanabacoa, and other places. Under the hot sun, because even in winter it is still hot. When the southern winds blow it drives anyone crazy. You cannot even see because of the dust that rises. Then there are mosquitoes and [word indistinct]. 164. Thousands of people go there and I ask myself, what money could motivate these people to go there? No one is forced into farming. When we cannot give a person a job in the city, they go home. You can move them from this factory to the other, but go to the south of Pinar del Rio and take that, you cannot do that with money, comrades. And I will tell you that if we are not capable of creating an awareness among the people, the workers, the party members, the young people, and the farmers, of appealing to their patriotism, and appealing to the supreme values of the nation, honor, the people's interests, justice, for which so many times throughout history man has given his life, then we cannot [words indistinct]. We will not resolve [words indistinct] cigarettes and everything. It helps and I will not deny it. And that woman who was here, she does not look like a rustic farmer, yet she is chief of a brigade and has been there for eight or nine months. She has also promised to remain there for two years, and keeps saying that she wants to stay there longer. How can this be done? She says that they are going to exceed 120,000 or 130,000 quintals. They are going to double what they had, and triple it. Of course, the banana plantations and all those other things [words indistinct]. They had the best seed, they had more experience. But is it not wonderful to see people like this. 165. How many have gone from Havana to the countryside? There have been 200,000. How many have enrolled in contingents? About 15,000. If we wanted all of them to be in contingents, tomorrow we would have them all in contingents. We have not wanted to do this for political reasons. We want the people to participate. The contingents are more productive and more experienced. [Words indistinct] we wanted to make them all contingents. The contingents are obtaining fabulous results. 166. Can this be done for money? We give the best attention to the people because [words indistinct]. What you have to buy at a store with money you can do with the money you earn, with less than what you earn, or with what you receive when you are going home. I have witnessed this movement for more than a year out there. I used to ask myself whether they would get tired, bored. The early days were difficult ones. There was bad management, little experience. You do not know what these people have learned. The farmers also. If we want them to produce more, we will achieve this with the means we are employing. It is true. Now more people go to buy things. I do not know with what trucks, what fuel, with what things they are going to go to Havana, for example, to deliver the merchandise. 167. We use a large truck that is not fuel efficient to carry merchandise to the agricultural distribution centers. We take it. Do we not? 168. We have to do much more political work with the peasants. We need to meet with them more. There has to be more control. [Words indistinct] three hectares of carrots must be three and not two and a half. We must improve the collection system. It was operating poorly, very poorly. [audience murmur: ``No. No.''] What I mean is we are doing it. Lalo [not further identified] could talk at length on what has been done to improve the collection system. In the capital we have built agricultural distribution centers. We will continue to study the problem and find solutions. If your products are not picked up, take them to the agricultural distribution centers, but do not take them to the peasant's free markets. Take them to a small market, or take them to an agricultural distribution center. We can even pay you a little more, a small amount more to cover expenses so that you do not lose money. It could be done in different ways. We must think of all the things that have been presented here and all that must be done. I believe that the way we are working now is how we should be working to resolve the supply problem. 169. Free farmers markets would complicate the situation very much. It would disorganize everything we are doing, and I am completely convinced that it would sow corruption and demoralization. I am convinced that this is true. If things get worse, what will it be like? Imagine if part of the population had to move to the countryside, just imagine. How would we distribute things? With money? With free markets? Because it is during times of crisis when there is the least amount of unrestricted things. During wars, the capitalist countries put a halt to everything that is sold freely, and they establish food coupons, rationing. Are we, a socialist country in the midst of a special period, and without having yet entered its worse stage, going to invent new market mechanisms? Sell things without restrictions? Bring all these consequences down upon ourselves? 170. You will forgive me for having spoken at such length, but I felt it was essential to talk about these problems [words indistinct] the story of what we did not do, what we did then, and how we did it. What we are going to do now is precisely to find a solution to these problems. It seemed necessary to me, even though you, almost unanimous, presented the problem, I thought there was still something about this problem that had to be focused. [applause] 171. In addition to all these things, I have great respect for the delegate from Pinar del Rio [applause] because he had things to say and he said them with all honesty, integrity, and courage. Some of the things he said the first day were useful, and some of the things he mentioned today are a reality: the black market and all that. We thank him because he gave us the opportunity to broach this issue at this congress. We will discuss this, and any other issue we may have to discuss, here in this congress. We thank him because he has given us the opportunity to demonstrate the respect, liberty, and democracy with which we discuss these issues here. [applause] -END-