-DATE- 19920616 -YEAR- 1992 -DOCUMENT TYPE- -AUTHOR- -HEADLINE- Castro Talks About Environment, World Situation -PLACE- / 4-16 June Activities at -SOURCE- Rio de Janeiro JORNAL DO BRASIL -REPORT NO.- FBIS-LAT-92-118-S -REPORT DATE- 19920618 -HEADER- ======================================================================= Report Type: Daily report AFS Number: PY1806005292 Report Number: FBIS-LAT-92-118-S Report Date: 18 Jun 92 Report Series: Latin America Start Page: 6 Report Division: End Page: 11 Report Subdivision: 4-16 June Activities at UNCEDAG File Flag: Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Language: Portuguese Document Date: 16 Jun 92 Report Volume: Dissemination: FOUO City/Source of Document: Rio de Janeiro JORNAL DO BRASIL Report Name: SUPPLEMENT Headline: Castro Talks About Environment, World Situation Author(s): JORNAL DO BRASIL reporters Luciana Villas-Boas and Regina Zappa at the Rio Palace Hotel in Rio de Janeiro on 15 June] Source Line: PY1806005292 Rio de Janeiro JORNAL DO BRASIL in Portuguese 16 Jun 92 pp 12, 13-FOR OFFICIAL USE ONLY Subslug: [Interview with Cuban President Fidel Castro by JORNAL DO BRASIL reporters Luciana Villas-Boas and Regina Zappa at the Rio Palace Hotel in Rio de Janeiro on 15 June] -TEXT- FULL TEXT OF ARTICLE: 1. [Interview with Cuban President Fidel Castro by JORNAL DO BRASIL reporters Luciana Villas-Boas and Regina Zappa at the Rio Palace Hotel in Rio de Janeiro on 15 June] 2. [Text] [JORNAL DO BRASIL] You have told JORNAL DO BRASIL that you considered Bush an honest adversary and that his presence at the UNCED was a positive fact. 3. [Castro] No. I did not say he was an honest adversary. I did not use that word. I did say that he made what I consider a positive gesture. I was somewhat impressed because I did not believe he would be there for my speech. He arrived a few minutes earlier and listened to my speech. I did not know at the time where he was exactly, but my comrades told me that he even applauded. I think this is appropriate at this kind of conference where it is a habit to applaud everybody even if one disagrees with them. I did not know whether Bush would be there to listen to my speech, or that he would make this, let us say, educated, gesture. I believe, however, that his presence, irrespective of our well-known positions, was a contribution to the conference because he could have not come. There had been a lot of talk on whether or not he would come. In this regard all those present at the conference, so many leaders, of so many countries, especially the major industrialized countries, made a contribution. Japan did not show up. I imagine they had a problem. It would have been good for Japan to be there. Japan's presence alongside the great powers would have been positive. All the issues were discussed at length before the conference and documents prepared in advance were signed at the summit. The conference worked very hard. Each one of the treaties signed had a difficult delivery. Endless meetings were held during those 10 days to prepare the documents. In the end they had them ready. All this took place in a very pleasant, very positive atmosphere. We all met for lunch and everybody gathered under the same roof. There were no incidents whatsoever among the leaders, either out of courtesy or good manners. 4. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Did you talk to Bush? 5. [Castro] No, no. We did not get together. Nowhere did they sit us side by side. There would have been a problem if we had decided to talk to each other, although I would have had no objections. I would have behaved in a completely dignified and decent manner. 6. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Was Bush's isolation at the conference a display of strength or of weakness? 7. [Castro] I believe that the U.S. position elicited a unanimous reaction. The people disagree with the U.S. position. The people are dissatisfied with its attitude toward biodiversity. The United States was undoubtedly isolated. Practically all its allies signed the treaty. I believed that perhaps the United States would adopt a more flexible position, but it did not. 8. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Do you believe that this was the first display of political independence by Europe and the other U.S. allies after the end of the Cold War? 9. [Castro] Well, it was a show of political independence. I do not know whether it was the first or the last. The positions were different; even among developed countries they had different shadings. Norway's position, for example, was a very good one. The position of (Canadian Premier) Mulroney was very weak and open. He is one of those who lends very weak support to the idea, the effort [to save the environment]. The positions of others were more cautious, with more reservations. The position of rich developed countries at this kind of conference is not an easy one, mainly because it is not easy to justify the enormous waste of resources and wealth in the light of the poverty prevailing in the developing world. Everybody remembers that colonialism gave birth to the large capitals and neocolonialism fed them. The foreign debt became the means to perpetuate backwardness and underdevelopment. Protectionism is an enormous obstacle for the development of Third World countries. Over the last 10 years unfair trade has cost the Third World $1.4 billion and the servicing of the foreign debt has cost $1.3 billion [figures as published]. Thus, the Third World lost almost $3 billion in the last 10 years. These are terrible obstacles for development. The Third World knows very well that it has financed capitalist overdevelopment during the colonial times, but also that it continues to finance this development under the neocolonial status. Therefore, this excessive luxury, and the squandering and waste of resources have been the cause of environmental problems. It is not easy to justify this. Those who are guilty of this squandering and waste cannot have a clear conscience. People are talking about developing countries, but in reality they are underdeveloped countries. I say this because the gap between developed and underdeveloped countries is growing. What we have are underdeveloped countries, countries that are falling behind. The gap is growing bigger and bigger. The more luxury and waste there is among consumer societies, the greater the poverty elsewhere. The international organizations have all the statistics. 10. Every year 14 million children die from curable diseases. These deaths could be avoided through proper health programs. It is as if a bomb were thrown at the children of the Third World every three days, a bomb like those of Horishima and Nagasaki, which killed more than 100,000 people. Whereas bombs leave radiation, the hunger and poverty that kill all these children also leave their aftereffects, such as malnutrition and poverty that do not allow the children that do not die to attain full physical and mental development. It is known that malnutrition causes a certain degree of mental retardation. I do not know about children, but it is known that many women die in the world because of epidemics: scores of millions every year, more than during World War II. We see this happening every day. We are horrified, and rightly so, by border conflicts. We are horrified when 10, 20, 30 people die. Meanwhile, 40,000 children die every day but no one talks about it. The Americans are the worst pollutors of the environment because they consume three-quarters of the energy they produce. They consume most of the metals and raw materials. There are also problems related to their lifestyle. Advertising turns this lifestyle into the aspiration of all Third World societies. It is, however, impossible to live like they do. Let us analyze. In the United States there are at least two cars in every house. There is at least one car per person, maybe more, I do not know. Now, let us just imagine what would happen if China implemented a development model aimed at giving each person a car, or if India's development model also sought to provide each person with a car. What would happen if Africa did the same? How long would the fuel last? How long would the air last? The air is already receiving 21 billion tons of carbon dioxide per year. Twenty-five percent of it comes from the United States. Almost all of it comes from developed countries. The consequences are disastrous for both soil and water and are causing a global catastrophe, the terrible heat, the tornados, the excessive rains and the droughts. The last 10 years have been the hottest of the century, and 1990 was the hottest of them all. All this has its agricultural, social, and economic consequences. The reduction of the ozone layer is very serious because this layer protects human beings from ultraviolet rays. The number of people with some kind of skin cancer in the United States is appalling. Both developed and developing countries are aware of this problem. 11. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Can the environment issue bind the Third World together from now on? 12. [Castro] Objectively speaking, the environment and development should be a factor of unity. There lies the significance of this conference. People do not know if they will be alive tomorrow, or if they will eat the next day. Those who walk around barefoot, those who can die from a disease, those who go hungry, do not worry about the environment, but they do worry a great deal about development. The combination of environment and development should be a binding factor for all countries because no one can escape from environmental degradation, and everybody knows this. It is also known that there must be development, that the world cannot go on like this, that the mess is getting worse all the time. A great many developed countries are aware that they have no options but to implement policies to help resolve underdevelopment. The two things go together. Now that the Cold War is over, what pretext can there be to continue spending millions and millions, enormous, almost incommensurable amounts on arms? In the last few years military spending has amounted to $13 trillion. These funds would have been enough to finance development, enough to implement life-compatible environmental policies. I believe that environment and development should together become an element of unity among nations. This is what happened here at the conference. It should not unite only the Third World, because alone the Third World will be unable to resolve the problem. The developed countries cannot resolve it either. We must all come together and work together as we have done at this conference. Finding a solution to these problems is extremely urgent. We are not dramatizing things; the problems are much more serious than people realize. 13. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Do you believe in this union of Third and First Worlds? 14. [Castro] I believe that it is imperative for us to work together. Unless we do it, there will be no solution. 15. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Can't the environment bring the Third World together? 16. [Castro] I believe that both environment and development are key issues. Developed countries are interested more in ecology than in the development of the Third World. It is possible that Third World countries are interested more in development. The two things, however, are very important and should go together. Separately the two issues will not unite, they will not instill a fighting spirit. The two issues are inseparable. This is something new for the Movement of Nonaligned Countries, whose members have many problems and for whom development and environment are vital. These issues could become the core of the nonaligned countries' struggle for independence and against the last traces of colonialism. When I talk about development, I talk about everything that influences it, such as foreign debt, protectionism, unfair trade, and technology transfers. 17. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Has Cuba overcome the harshest part of the crisis, or are worse times ahead? 18. [Castro] We are in a full crisis, amid a very harsh and long crisis, but we are ready for any problem. For example, the situation could be worse with an increase in oil prices and a reduction in sugar prices, from which we earn the scarce currency with which to face the crisis. While we are creating new resources under very harsh circumstances, because we are suffering from a trade blockade, new adverse factors may turn up, so we must prepare ourselves well for that, and not raise short-term expectations. This is why our program is very important. Its merit is having carried it out under a very difficult economic situation. Until the present no country felt the economic blow that the disappearance of the socialist world represented for Cuba. We lost 60 percent of our imports. Cuba is currently receiving only 40 percent of the imports it used to receive, and less than 50 percent of the fuel it used to receive. This has also taught us to defend the environment, the ecology. We discovered the value of bicycles; why wasn't the value of this kind of transportation not appreciated before? Everybody used to ride on the bus to travel a few blocks, while it is much more healthy and clean to use a bicycle. The Chinese, out of wisdom and need, further developed the use of the bicycle. How many buses are necessary to replace all the bicycles? And how much fuel would they have to use?... We are facing a struggle without glory. But it will be better to consider that the blockade will be prolonged. This blockade is not only longlasting but is increasingly hardening. New things to hinder our development are created yearly; even our trade efforts, including our economic opening to foreign investments, which is an undeniable need-affecting the development of our country, the conditions in which it must develop. There is a meticulous and firm struggle against all of our country's activities. The blockade tends to become worse. We must prepare ourselves to resist an increasingly hardened blockade on Cuba. 19. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] What can Cuba do to promote a political opening and at the same time combat the economic crisis? 20. [Castro] From the political point of view I think that we have a government system that is really superior to those in the rest of the world. The way we managed to implement it must be taken into consideration. We have a single party, but the party does not choose or postulate candidates. In Europe the parties are the ones that postulate and elect the parliament representatives. Based on a calculation of the amount of votes a party may obtain, it establishes lists of candidates and priorities. If a party knows it can elect three deputies, it places them first in line. The people vote for a party and the party is the one who chooses the candidate. In Cuba, the party does not postulate or elect candidates. The neighbors (citizens) are the ones who postulate candidates. It is the people who elect them. That is how we do it, but nobody knows about it. In the neighborhood meetings they propose several candidates to delegates for each voting district. After that, an election is held with not less than two and not more than eight candidates. Sometimes there are eight, seven, five, or only two candidates. The public is based mainly on their knowledge of the merits of the candidate. We do not have an election campaign with signs that pollute the city and make it dirty and which demand millionaire expenses, making it difficult for those who do not have money to have access to politics. In Cuba, our system is broad and free. It is even more healthy in the field of political ecology. The election system in Cuba used to be like a high school system. The delegates of the voting districts elected the National Assembly which in turn elected the government. Now we have direct elections for deputies to the National Assembly and direct elections for delegates to the Provincial Assembly. We will try to preserve the purity of this political system in which 95 percent of the population participates without any obligation to vote. In the past, less than 50 percent of the voters participated in the elections in the United States. 21. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Are new leaders being trained in Cuba? How will the island fare after Fidel? 22. [Castro] Possibly much better. There is a new generation that includes many more scientists, technicians, cadres, experience, knowledge, and culture. When the revolution began 30 percent of our country's population was illiterate. Today our workers have finished basic secondary school; there are hundreds of thousands of university graduates; there are 300,000 professors and teachers; and there are scores of thousands of scientists and engineers. Of the first contingent of revolutionaries, fewer and fewer are left all the time. There is a natural process of promoting young cadres in provinces and grassroots organizations. In Havana it is almost illegal to become old. Very soon we will have to create an organization to defend the political rights of the elderly because for the sake of promoting the young the few old people left are about to be pensioned off. Painters, doctors, scientists, artists-no one wants to retire, but politicians must retire. Doctors do not want to retire because they believe that the older they get the more they know, but it is not the same with politicians. If they replace us, however, we will not be ashamed. As humans we will not be ashamed. Our greatest satisfaction will be to see that our young people can do without us. We are not worried about the time when we will no longer be around. We do not have many years ahead of us. One would have to be very optimistic to believe otherwise. Political work is not conducive to a long life. Tensions, worries shorten the lifespan. We are not afraid, however. 23. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Do you believe that the world is still moving toward socialism even after the demise of the Soviet Union? 24. [Castro] At this point the world is not moving toward socialism but toward neocapitalism, neoliberalism, the political trend in fashion. Let us see for how long, because this trend usually leads to enormous social crises in a very short time. Just because socialism has lost some ground does not mean that the socialist idea is dead. As a modern concept capitalism was born with the French Revolution. It burst into the world through the French Revolution, bringing new ideas and new institutions that opposed the feudal system. Great progress was attained, then capitalism lost ground. We should not forget that Restoration followed the French Revolution. Restoration, however, could not restore everything exactly as it was. But those concepts, those ideas, are still prevalent. A modern society does not achieve progress in a linear fashion. It may experience highs and lows, retrocession. Socialism is now experiencing a retrocession. But this does not mean that socialist ideals and objectives have been abolished. The reality of today's world has shown us that humanity must be more rational if it wants to survive-the peril of a nuclear war is gone but there is environmental contamination-by preserving the living conditions to which man has adapted millions of years ago and from which it has evolved. No one rejects the theory of evolution anymore. Even Darwin, who was so criticized and slandered, is accepted by all. Even the British prime minister mentioned Darwin in his speech. Everyone accepts the theory of the evolution of the species, of this species that has evolved into an intelligent being and which has yet to prove that it has evolved for the good of nature. What will happen if man-that species known as homosapien who has not yet sufficiently proven his wisdom-changes in one century the natural habitat which has taken him thousands of years to adapt and he is unable to adapt to these new conditions? Many phenomena dealing with the destruction of nature are beginning to occur-foods highly contaminated with chemical fertilizers that are harmful to health in the medium- and short-term; fish that are caught in high seas are often highly contaminated with mercury-a substance that is harmful to health-because of water pollution. Man's respiratory illnesses are constantly increasing because of the saturation of gasses. This is not caused only by the destruction of the ozone layer, which increases the possibilities of developing skin cancer, but by dozens of other phenomena. What will we do in 40 years-when the world population will reach 10 billion-in order to feed ourselves if we continue to destroy nature, erode our soil, and destroy our forests? We will not survive if we do not apply all the science that man has acquired to solve these future problems. 25. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] How does the Cuban regime, which has always vindicated humanism and more humane social treatment, view the death penalty? 26. [Castro] The death penalty is not something to sympathize with. The death penalty is a resource to struggle against plans to destroy the country. We can advocate for the eradication of the death penalty as an ideal but we cannot do it unilaterally. We are willing to sign an international treaty by which all countries commit themselves to eradicate the death penalty. But if we make our rules more flexible, less strict, regarding certain perils we may be paving the way for our own destruction. You must understand that there are many people who believe that our revolution will be wiped out by the United States and this is why it is trying to enter Cuba to sabotage our economy and promote terrorism against the people. If these people believe that the maximum punishment they will receive will be spending some months in prison and later savor their treason, we will be unable to restrain them. Within this context, it is impossible to renounce capital punishment because it is a necessity imposed by the war situation we are experiencing. The death penalty exists in all countries at war. And Cuba cannot forget that the most powerful world power that has ever existed in history is waging war against us and it is trying to destroy us. We are not living under normal conditions. Under normal circumstances, we may practice that superior humanism that advocates the eradication of the death penalty. 27. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] You said that Cuba still practices internationalism, but the fact is that the economic crisis and the end of colonial wars have obstructed the exercise of internationalism. What ideological impact has this had on the Cuban people? 28. [Castro] At a given time we had to send combatants to different African countries. The most important case was that of Angola, which was attacked by South Africa. We had more than 50,000 men in Angola. We were forced to send this kind of assistance, and I am sorry we did because I would have rather sent doctors, teachers, and experts instead of soldiers. When the circumstances changed, peace was achieved. The South Africans withdrew, Namibian independence was recognized, there was great progress achieved regarding apartheid, and the reason for our presence there ceased to exist. We left. Under our present circumstances, we could not send this type of assistance. But we can still make important contributions in the fields of health, education, technical cooperation, and medical assistance. We have almost 100 doctors in Nicaragua. We do not have any military programs anymore, but we do have other programs. We have doctors in dozens of countries. There are scholarship programs for thousands of Third World youths. We have programs in Cuba for Chernobyl children. More than 10,000 children are being treated. No one speaks about these things, not even us. And even today after the demise of the USSR we are open to cooperation with three republics, mainly, Ukraine, Byelarus, and Russia. During the Rio de Janeiro conference, I could have discussed the blockade on Cuba and the unjust policies imposed on us. But we decided not to do this from this podium so as not to deviate from the main issue, so as not to divide the conference. I didn't even mention Cuba. I did not speak of its interests, or about its problems. I believe that this also constitutes an expression of solidarity, an expression of internationalist policy. We support the cause of those countries that want to achieve development and which we have been supporting for many years in a consistent manner. 29. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] In Cuba we heard people say that the time has come for Cuba to think about itself and not about others. 30. [Castro] No, on the contrary. People are aware that the best service we can render others is to resist. People are aware that by defending our ideals, by defending Cuban independence, by defending our trenches, we are fulfilling a great internationalist duty. Internationalism also entails overcoming the current difficult situation we are experiencing. At a time in which the balance of power has ceased to exist, and in which our bipolar world has evolved into a unipolar world, with only one hegemonic power, we practice internationalism by defending the trenches of socialism, just ideas, and independence. This is what people are saying: The current task is to save the revolution, the fatherland, socialism. 31. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] What was your most important thought the day that the Soviet flag was replaced by the Russian flag at the Kremlin? 32. [Castro] I believe that the entire world views with sadness, with ever-increasing sadness, the great tragedy that was the disintegration of the USSR. It shattered the world balance. Now the balance is tilted only to one side and, if people disliked bipolarity, they will like unipolarity much less, the prevalence of a single country above others. The prevalence of a country that is not characterized in its history by fraternal feelings, by loving other countries. Quite the contrary, it surged at the expense of its own indigenous population, of the territories of other countries, and it continued to expand like a great empire at the expense of the economic and political interests of the rest of the world. I would not like to confuse the country and the empire at this time because this country harbors many progressive people who are ecologically conscientious, who are aware of the poverty that others suffer. But the empire that the United States represents is quite powerful and this makes people restless all over the world. I can peceive this restlessness among its own powerful allies in view of the risk that this political and military power may be used against their own interests. Much more so now when there is a great economic struggle among the developed countries' groups: Japan, the United States, Europe. 33. It is sad to see a country like the Soviet Union disappear. But no one can deny this country's great influence in all aspects. The October Revolution had its influence on thinkers, politicians, writers. The USSR influenced the struggle for the liberation of peoples. It influenced the disappearance of the colonial system, even though it was later replaced by a neocolonial system. It helped influence the well-being of workers because the social revolution forced the bourgeoisie around the world to show concern for the working class which then tried to implement a fairer distribution of wealth and resources. All this is due to the October Revolution. This country paid for its fight against fascism with the lives of 20 million men and women because without this country's struggle, without its heroic struggle, fascism would have taken over the world. For some time, that is, because all empires last for only a certain period of time, they do not stay indefinitely. Hitler thought that his empire would last 1,000 years but it did not last even 10 years. No matter how much political, economic, or military pressure it can muster, even the United States will eventually discover that the world is ungovernable. The USSR was destroyed twice in 25 years but it was still able to industrialize, and this despite the blockade and isolation. The USSR had great industrial resources and a large territory, which is not the case for Cuba, a small country with scarce resources. The USSR was able to industrialize and reconstruct the country after World War II. It had great scientific successes even though it did not always use its successes with the right criteria. The USSR was able to achieve nuclear parity in very difficult conditions and was able to confront the U.S. military power. The USSR was able to produce 600 million tonnes of oil per year, 300 billion cubic meters of gas, 150 million tonnes of steel, 140 million tonnes of cement, dozens of millions of tonnes of fertilizers, tens of thousands of kilometers of oil and gas pipelines, and a fantastic energy network in that very cold country. It did not make elegant shoes but it had great success in the production of basic raw materials. It was able to integrate the country that was born during a war, through conflicts. It is sad to see the country splitting with wars and bloodshed just when Europe is uniting politically and economically. The world is concerned about that, people are not happy to see the infighting. It is still uncertain how the situation will evolve but it is sad to see the scattering of qualified USSR scientists and technicians, the increase in unemployment-which will probably reach 15 to 20 million in one year. It is very, very sad. We must respect a country's right to hoist the kind of flag it wishes. It is understandable for me to feel sad when the Soviet Union's flag and symbols were taken down. 34. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] Did you feel any fear during the Soviet disintegration process? 35. [Castro] Us? No, certainly not. We were very calm. We felt secure and had high morale. During dangerous times people produce more adrenaline. Our people produced a lot of adrenaline-political, revolutionary adrenaline when thinking of the difficulties ahead. It is surprising- and must be recognized by our enemies-that this small country stood alone defending its ideals when the socialist world disappeared. 36. [JORNAL DO BRASIL] What do you feel when you think that a tiny Caribbean island-against all political forecasts-is the bastion of socialism at the end of the 20th century? 37. [Castro] We did none of that. We were not looking for any type of glory. I think life has not been very kind to us. But we are the most independent country in the world. We do not depend on anyone. We only depend on the world as a whole. Life was difficult and subjected us to difficult tests. But I think that we still will ``thank life''-as Violeta Chamorro's song says-for giving us so much. Because life gave us the difficulties but also the virtues to face them. I am sure that in the future when we remember this period we will be happy to have lived during this special period, because in times like this virtues flourish, people learn to work more efficiently. In times like this people learn things they could not learn before. I want to congratulate Brazil for the extraordinary success of the conference. Brazilian prestige was greatly enhanced by this conference, which will be considered a historic event; no one will dispute that. -END-